Most overvalued / undervalued ratings? Topic

bhansalid00
Posts: 713 (0)
Hall of Famer
104 189 6 1
Prospect
Specifically, I'm asking which ratings you think newer coaches (including you when you were newer) tend to overvalue and undervalue in recruiting and team construction at the D3 / D2 levels.

Here's my take:
Overvalued: REB. Before ppl who didn't read the part above jump down my throat, yeah, I know rebounding matters. And if you have so little of it at PF and C that you're giving up tons of off rebs and easy shots every game, that's a huge problem (esp in zone). But once you have an acceptable level of it, I think REB has pretty serious diminishing returns. At D2, having a 4th or 5th excellent rebounder doesn't make much difference, certainly not in the way that having a 5th dominant athlete or defender or 3-pt shooter does. And REB at SF often comes with the tradeoff that you're not getting a guard-type there, with high speed, perimeter and BH.

Undervalued: BH. I say this from my personal experience when I was a newbie. I'd have good regular seasons but get killed by better teams in the NT. My shooting percentages were still usually solid, but I was turning the ball over a ton (esp vs press, but even vs M2M). Focusing more on BH helped my offense a lot at both D3 and D2. And it's a rating that pays off for both big men and guards.

Would love to hear other takes on this.

4/28/2014 1:13 PM
Trentonjoe
Posts: 10960 (0)
Hall of Famer
390 589 54 1
Hall of Famer
I think passing is undervalued. I think perimeter is the most over valued. I am on my phone so I can't elaborate but I will when I get a chance.
4/28/2014 1:21 PM
terps21234
Posts: 728 (0)
Hall of Famer
292 17
Prospect
Overvalued:  Per.  I had guys and still have a guy with 99 PER, but is shooting 3pt below 40%. You have to have BH and SP in order to have good per player.  I don't like this. In real life if a guy is SLOW, but can shoot he will do just fine.
 
Undervalued:  I agree with BH.  I would go with Passing.  I've seen guys with great BH and low passing and turn the ball over a lot.
4/28/2014 1:24 PM
terps21234
Posts: 728 (0)
Hall of Famer
292 17
Prospect
Posted by Trentonjoe on 4/28/2014 1:21:00 PM (view original):
I think passing is undervalued. I think perimeter is the most over valued. I am on my phone so I can't elaborate but I will when I get a chance.
+1
4/28/2014 1:25 PM
sol_phenom3
Posts: 928 (0)
Hall of Famer
311 27 3
Pro
TJ is 100% right. Passing is the most undervalued in general.

But I think when it comes to overvalued and undervalued skills it's really a position-by-position thing.

For example, passing is *NOT* undervalued in point guards, but I think it's heavily undervalued in all four other positions, especially in 3's and 4's. 

I think perimeter is undervalued at the 4 and even the 5.  But especially at the 4. In DIII, a power forward who can hit a mid-range jumper is a serious threat.

I'll add to this list when I have more time on my hands.***
4/28/2014 1:25 PM
jaymc2007
Posts: 423 (0)
Hall of Famer
73 5
Prospect
Obviously not as experienced as you all.... but when I first played years ago and got mad and quit because I was terrible!! lol

I overvalued perim and LP.  I didn't understand the concept of need speed and ath to go alone with those two, and I didn't take the time to read up and see them.

Coincidentally, I under valued speed and ath... along with defense... I know, I know, arguably the three most important things, but again I didn't take time to read and learn.
4/28/2014 1:46 PM
hogstench
Posts: 172 (0)
Hall of Famer
105 4 1
Prospect
Passing
4/28/2014 2:21 PM
mikvitu
Posts: 304 (0)
Hall of Famer
1 50
Rookie

I think speed is undervalued compared to athleticism. 
I definitely think team passing is undervalued.

4/28/2014 4:10 PM
scaturo
Posts: 304 (0)
All Star
5 29
Prospect
Posted by sol_phenom3 on 4/28/2014 1:25:00 PM (view original):
TJ is 100% right. Passing is the most undervalued in general.

But I think when it comes to overvalued and undervalued skills it's really a position-by-position thing.

For example, passing is *NOT* undervalued in point guards, but I think it's heavily undervalued in all four other positions, especially in 3's and 4's. 

I think perimeter is undervalued at the 4 and even the 5.  But especially at the 4. In DIII, a power forward who can hit a mid-range jumper is a serious threat.

I'll add to this list when I have more time on my hands.***
Do 4s and 5s need a useable speed to take advantage of a higher perimeter rating? I think a 30 speed 30 perimeter player will do well against a 1 speed 50 def defender but what about a.30 sod defender?
4/28/2014 8:57 PM
tkimble
Posts: 1347 (0)
Hall of Famer
2 335 1 1
Rookie
Posted by terps21234 on 4/28/2014 1:24:00 PM (view original):
Overvalued:  Per.  I had guys and still have a guy with 99 PER, but is shooting 3pt below 40%. You have to have BH and SP in order to have good per player.  I don't like this. In real life if a guy is SLOW, but can shoot he will do just fine.
 
Undervalued:  I agree with BH.  I would go with Passing.  I've seen guys with great BH and low passing and turn the ball over a lot.
There is still great value in a 3pt shooter shooting 38%!  Having 40% be the cut-off for 3pt shooters is like saying anyone shooting below 60% on 2s isn't shooting well.  
4/28/2014 9:21 PM
dukenilnil
Posts: 302 (0)
Hall of Famer
10 180
Prospect
Posted by tkimble on 4/28/2014 9:21:00 PM (view original):
Posted by terps21234 on 4/28/2014 1:24:00 PM (view original):
Overvalued:  Per.  I had guys and still have a guy with 99 PER, but is shooting 3pt below 40%. You have to have BH and SP in order to have good per player.  I don't like this. In real life if a guy is SLOW, but can shoot he will do just fine.
 
Undervalued:  I agree with BH.  I would go with Passing.  I've seen guys with great BH and low passing and turn the ball over a lot.
There is still great value in a 3pt shooter shooting 38%!  Having 40% be the cut-off for 3pt shooters is like saying anyone shooting below 60% on 2s isn't shooting well.  
+1

I might even go a step further and say that at D3, Per is the most undervalued stat by the best players. In fact, I've been told in the past by some excellent, multiple D3 championship teams that PER is the least valuable stat.  I tend to find 3pt shooting (esp Per) under used by many top level coaches in D3.  If you can shoot 35%+ from 3pt, or even better, 40%+, then fire away.  All of my best teams have had a couple of excellent Per players.
4/28/2014 9:39 PM
jsajsa
Posts: 631 (0)
Hall of Famer
1 28 1 133 3
Rookie
Undervalued: Agree BH and Passing outside of PG are undervalued. How has nobody mentioned stamina??? I guess that by itself makes it undervalued.

Overvalued: Rebounding and PER. The OP has rebounding exactly right. Of course it's a great advantage to have four guys at 99 rebounding on my team, but it's not necessary. My take on PER is that an elite shooter is the single best weapon in the game, BUT if you can't shoot I don't care about your PER. Meaning this: if you are a guard and you don't fit the bill of what I qualify as a "shooter," your PER can be anywhere from let's say 10 to 60 and it's all basically the same to me. I want my 3s going in at a high percentage or I don't want them shot. Since my guards generally have high ATH/SP anyway, I'd rather have them driving and causing havoc by getting the opposition into foul trouble over shooting 35-36% from 3 on a "0" setting. There is a big range where I don't care what the PER is, but it is recruited for it because when you can find those elite shooters they are well worth it. From my own experience, however, a little PER does often make a nice difference in a Bigs' ability to score.
4/28/2014 10:23 PM (edited)
a_in_the_b
Posts: 1653 (0)
Hall of Famer
1 18 570 3
Pro
Posted by dukenilnil on 4/28/2014 9:39:00 PM (view original):
Posted by tkimble on 4/28/2014 9:21:00 PM (view original):
Posted by terps21234 on 4/28/2014 1:24:00 PM (view original):
Overvalued:  Per.  I had guys and still have a guy with 99 PER, but is shooting 3pt below 40%. You have to have BH and SP in order to have good per player.  I don't like this. In real life if a guy is SLOW, but can shoot he will do just fine.
 
Undervalued:  I agree with BH.  I would go with Passing.  I've seen guys with great BH and low passing and turn the ball over a lot.
There is still great value in a 3pt shooter shooting 38%!  Having 40% be the cut-off for 3pt shooters is like saying anyone shooting below 60% on 2s isn't shooting well.  
+1

I might even go a step further and say that at D3, Per is the most undervalued stat by the best players. In fact, I've been told in the past by some excellent, multiple D3 championship teams that PER is the least valuable stat.  I tend to find 3pt shooting (esp Per) under used by many top level coaches in D3.  If you can shoot 35%+ from 3pt, or even better, 40%+, then fire away.  All of my best teams have had a couple of excellent Per players.
That good but not elite per has another effect; you have enough of those guys available and it cuts down on heavy minus defenses a bit.
4/28/2014 11:37 PM
jdno
Posts: 655 (0)
Hall of Famer
152
Rookie
Posted by sol_phenom3 on 4/28/2014 1:25:00 PM (view original):
TJ is 100% right. Passing is the most undervalued in general.

But I think when it comes to overvalued and undervalued skills it's really a position-by-position thing.

For example, passing is *NOT* undervalued in point guards, but I think it's heavily undervalued in all four other positions, especially in 3's and 4's. 

I think perimeter is undervalued at the 4 and even the 5.  But especially at the 4. In DIII, a power forward who can hit a mid-range jumper is a serious threat.

I'll add to this list when I have more time on my hands.***
What is an acceptable PE rating for the 4 and 5 to you?  And when you get such a rating, do you go -1 or 0 with them?  I've often wondered when I do have a big who has, say, a 30 PE value and I keep them at -2 if I'm still telling them to shoot in the paint exclusively or if the engine somehow knows that even with a -2 that they're able to hit a decent midrange shot and they "get rewarded" for this. 

I suppose I could track the pbp verbage for such cases, but those are details I just don't get bogged down with, though clearly it could add value if I did. As it stands, I just can't bring myself to loosen up and assign anything but a -2 even to a big with a 30 PE rating.  I prefer the tradeoff of having a more efficient and consistent offense and working to get to the FT line as much as possible if they have a good LP rating or simply giving them a low distribution if they don't have much scoring ability at all (beyond simply having high ATH).
4/29/2014 12:13 AM
tkimble
Posts: 1347 (0)
Hall of Famer
2 335 1 1
Rookie
Posted by jsajsa on 4/28/2014 10:23:00 PM (view original):
Undervalued: Agree BH and Passing outside of PG are undervalued. How has nobody mentioned stamina??? I guess that by itself makes it undervalued.

Overvalued: Rebounding and PER. The OP has rebounding exactly right. Of course it's a great advantage to have four guys at 99 rebounding on my team, but it's not necessary. My take on PER is that an elite shooter is the single best weapon in the game, BUT if you can't shoot I don't care about your PER. Meaning this: if you are a guard and you don't fit the bill of what I qualify as a "shooter," your PER can be anywhere from let's say 10 to 60 and it's all basically the same to me. I want my 3s going in at a high percentage or I don't want them shot. Since my guards generally have high ATH/SP anyway, I'd rather have them driving and causing havoc by getting the opposition into foul trouble over shooting 35-36% from 3 on a "0" setting. There is a big range where I don't care what the PER is, but it is recruited for it because when you can find those elite shooters they are well worth it. From my own experience, however, a little PER does often make a nice difference in a Bigs' ability to score.
+1 Spot on
4/29/2014 12:40 AM
1234 Next ▸
Most overvalued / undervalued ratings? Topic
△Top△Bottom

Search Criteria

Terms of Use Customer Support Privacy Statement

© 1999-2024 WhatIfSports.com, Inc. All rights reserved. WhatIfSports is a trademark of WhatIfSports.com, Inc. SimLeague, SimMatchup and iSimNow are trademarks or registered trademarks of Electronic Arts, Inc. Used under license. The names of actual companies and products mentioned herein may be the trademarks of their respective owners.