All Forums > Hoops Dynasty Basketball > Hoops Dynasty > How much of a disadvantage is zone defense?
5/3/2014 5:33 PM
A lot of this seems pretty obvious, but there are two things that caught my eye.

Defense is averaged? So you can have a rotten defender on one side of a zone going against a great offensive player, but the game is going to think he's better than he is? that sounds really lazy.

Second, in a 3-2, PG should be taken by itself just as C is (correctly) in a 2-3. If you don't have a PG that can cut off penetration in a 3-2, you are going to stop nothing. Real world, most of the time you'd probably play the PG sagging off a bit to make sure of this. If a ballhandler gets penetration against a 3-2, there's a very good chance of giving up a bucket because there are only two defenders really in a position do anything at that point, and in modern offenses, one of those may be dragged away from the lane by a stretch 4.

In a 2-3, a pair of guards can form an odd front and control penetration, but in a 3-2, the PG is by himself in that and the offense really has a choice as to how to attack it -- to try to get penetration with a lead guard, or to use a 2-man front (which then forces the defense to make a choice on how far upcourt it plays the wing players in the zone).

IMO, the 1-3-1 is superior to a 3-2. The way to beat a 1-3-1 is a vulnerability in 3-2 as well, but it's more effective in other ways. 
5/3/2014 5:41 PM
Posted by zbrent716 on 5/3/2014 5:07:00 PM (view original):
Gillispie - Rebound. That's the next question in my mind and really a key. Are the 2-3 PF/SF averaged together for defensive rebounding purposes? And how does the "matchup" aspect of rebounding account for the zone?

If so, this is pretty huge, at least for the way I recruit SF. In the past, I've had no problem playing a High Ath/Def guy at SF even with low rebounding, thinking that his ~20 rebounding could be brought up reasonably by a 95+ C and 80+ PF (so the average is low, but maybe decent enough with very high Ath). If, instead, the SF/PF are averaged together independent of the C, now the average is down to ~50, at that seems too low to really work effectively. 

This is especially important if the relatively new "matchup" aspect of rebounding matches up the opposing PF against the average. In D2, that can often mean a 30+ advantage for the non-zone team on offensive rebounds.

If rebounding is weighted by position then I doubt it's averaged. But it would explain why you are usually at a rebounding disadvantage when you run zone. However I would much rather have the C stand alone than be averaged in that case because it gives me one elite rebounder which with high athleticism and decent rebounding out of the forwards should usually be enough.
5/3/2014 5:46 PM
Posted by Trentonjoe on 5/3/2014 3:10:00 PM (view original):
I am totally picking up a new team and playing around with the 2-3.

I plan on running 4 guards with one hi block, hi def center and playing a lot of + defense. I am going to 1/2 court press and shoot the **** out of the ball. In my head this is going to work!
Does playing + make your rebounding less effective?
5/3/2014 5:49 PM
Posted by ettaexpress on 5/3/2014 5:46:00 PM (view original):
Posted by Trentonjoe on 5/3/2014 3:10:00 PM (view original):
I am totally picking up a new team and playing around with the 2-3.

I plan on running 4 guards with one hi block, hi def center and playing a lot of + defense. I am going to 1/2 court press and shoot the **** out of the ball. In my head this is going to work!
Does playing + make your rebounding less effective?
Yes and you will probably foul less if you have good defenders.
5/3/2014 5:55 PM
Well that part seems rather obvious. 

My question was related to the fact that rebounding is an issue in zone anyway, and you're talking about playing 4 guards, and you're talking about playing them away from the bucket. So basically you have 1 guy in a position to defensive rebound. 
5/3/2014 6:06 PM
One good rebounder, at least one close to average rebounder. In D3, I think you can away with an 70 ath, 40 reb guy
5/3/2014 6:10 PM
But that 2nd guy will be away from the basket from the sound of it, unless a team plays a double post and then if your 4 is really a guard type and the other team has a good 2nd post, well rebounding probably won't be a big factor on that matchup.

Seems like you could accomplish the same thing in man to man unless you're just trying ot game the system with the "defense averaging" with the zone. 
5/4/2014 9:24 AM
1. I want to utilize the shot blocking of the center. That is emphasized more in Zone.
2. The second best rebounder wont be any farther away than if we play man.
3. The whole point is to see if four athletic guards and one monster center can play defense effectively.
5/4/2014 9:26 AM
I am trying to get my 3/4 to have a def/ath above 60. I am going to ignore block, shoot for a speed above 50 and have one rebound above 40 and the other above 20.
5/4/2014 4:47 PM
Just talking through this for my own good:


1/2- 50 ATH 70 SPD 60 DEF
3- 60 ATH 50 SPD 60 DEF ??BLK 20 REB
4- 60 ATH 50 SPD 60 DEF ??BLK 40 REB
5- 60 ATH 60 DEF 70 BLK 70 REB
5/4/2014 5:47 PM
I think you need much more REB at the 5.  I shoot for 50 ATH and 90+ REB for my center.  

This guy is sort of my ideal C.  I'm sort of surprised he doesn't get more blocks though.  I might trade some other ratings for another 10 pts of block, but his DEF, REB and ATH are what I see as an ideal zone C at D3.

and maybe more SPD at the 1/2?
5/4/2014 6:57 PM
I wonder how much def is needed in the center. With the 2-3 he's getting help anyway.

I am thinking ath/block/rebounding are all more important.
5/4/2014 8:47 PM
Posted by guyo26 on 5/4/2014 5:47:00 PM (view original):
I think you need much more REB at the 5.  I shoot for 50 ATH and 90+ REB for my center.  

This guy is sort of my ideal C.  I'm sort of surprised he doesn't get more blocks though.  I might trade some other ratings for another 10 pts of block, but his DEF, REB and ATH are what I see as an ideal zone C at D3.

and maybe more SPD at the 1/2?
That guy is an unbelievable D3 center. In Naismith right now, there's a grand total of one D3 player who has that level of ATH + REB, and only two who have 50+ ATH / 90+ REB / 65+ DEF. So while I agree that he's ideal (in any defense), I think most coaches should be able to succeed with someone who's lower in his cores.
5/4/2014 9:05 PM
Haha that guy is an All-American. I'd say he's ideal.
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All Forums > Hoops Dynasty Basketball > Hoops Dynasty > How much of a disadvantage is zone defense?

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