I guess some people need to excel anyway they can. Also another reason why Div 1's elite teams are so hard to get and why an 8-19 team can make the PI.

Posted by sullytoo on 5/9/2014 3:33:00 PM (view original):
i read tanner's post last night and i think nacho is unjustifiably breaking out the pitch forks and torches. what tanner and his conference mates did several years ago was obviously a $h!tty thing. probably the worst type of cheating that i could conjure up, short of hacking the website for an advantage. but it was years ago. and his confession was literally 'hey guys, i know you're all saying nice things about me, so you should know, i did something really crappy...' now you want to crucify him? really? if it was currently ongoing i get it. but it seems that the statute of limitations has expired, especially in the context of him coming clean on his own accord.

Yeah, that part about "probably the worst type of cheating that I could conjure up", that about sums it up.

Besides, if he was really trying to make amens, then he would of been a man and left it up and not taken it down after five minutes...sounds pretty cowardish to me.

Posted by nachopuzzle on 5/9/2014 6:31:00 PM (view original):

Posted by sullytoo on 5/9/2014 3:33:00 PM (view original):
i read tanner's post last night and i think nacho is unjustifiably breaking out the pitch forks and torches. what tanner and his conference mates did several years ago was obviously a $h!tty thing. probably the worst type of cheating that i could conjure up, short of hacking the website for an advantage. but it was years ago. and his confession was literally 'hey guys, i know you're all saying nice things about me, so you should know, i did something really crappy...' now you want to crucify him? really? if it was currently ongoing i get it. but it seems that the statute of limitations has expired, especially in the context of him coming clean on his own accord.

Yeah, that part about "probably the worst type of cheating that I could conjure up", that about sums it up.

Besides, if he was really trying to make amens, then he wouldn't of been of man and left the up and not taken it down after five minutes...sounds pretty cowardish to me.

Now that I've heard both sides, I agree that you're being a bit unreasonable. Your post title makes it sound like Tanner is currently cheating, when that's not what the post said at ALL.

Okay, I'll make a deal, if tanner stops being a coward and posts a thread just like the one he hastily put up & took down last night, then I'll change the tittle of this thread to "Tannermcc used to be a LargeScale Cheater".

Whether he does that or not, it doesn't change the fact that your post title is pretty unfair.

Posted by wildcat98 on 5/9/2014 7:20:00 PM (view original):
Whether he does that or not, it doesn't change the fact that your post title is pretty unfair.

Is it as unfair as the massive collusion and large scale cheating that he and his conference mates undertook for multiple seasons?

I'm fine being labelled a cheater.

I don't play the game for the accolades anymore I play for fun. If i cared about winning and being the best I'd have kept doing what I did in that one world.

It is because you use the word *are* you should be fair about it and state that they *were* cheaters. You have no proof that it is still going on and he was gone for a period of time. That conference is no longer comprised of the same coaches. The title is misleading and wrong. I thought I missed something also that showed how he is still cheating now. Unfair title

I could be wrong about this, were you briefly banned from the forums but given a second chance?

Posted by milwood on 5/9/2014 7:38:00 PM (view original):
It is because you use the word *are* you should be fair about it and state that they *were* cheaters. You have no proof that it is still going on and he was gone for a period of time. That conference is no longer comprised of the same coaches. The title is misleading and wrong. I thought I missed something also that showed how he is still cheating now. Unfair title

I could be wrong about this, were you briefly banned from the forums but given a second chance?

I said before that if tanner reposts the thread he did last night, then I'll change the name to "Tannermcc was a cheater", and hell if he names it "I was a cheater" then I'll remove this thread altogether.

Yeah, I got hit with a four day ban a while back, for calling somebody who actually is a ****-ant liar just that, a ****-ant liar. I broke the sites rules against cussing, so I was in violation on of site regulations...if only the site cared as much about cheating as they did cussing.

Posted by nachopuzzle on 5/9/2014 7:56:00 PM (view original):

Posted by milwood on 5/9/2014 7:38:00 PM (view original):
It is because you use the word *are* you should be fair about it and state that they *were* cheaters. You have no proof that it is still going on and he was gone for a period of time. That conference is no longer comprised of the same coaches. The title is misleading and wrong. I thought I missed something also that showed how he is still cheating now. Unfair title

I could be wrong about this, were you briefly banned from the forums but given a second chance?

I said before that if tanner reposts the thread he did last night, then I'll change the name to "Tannermcc was a cheater", and hell if he names it "I was a cheater" then I'll remove this thread altogether.

Yeah, I got hit with a four day ban a while back, for calling somebody who actually is a ****-ant liar just that, a ****-ant liar. I broke the sites rules against cussing, so I was in violation on of site regulations...if only the site cared as much about cheating as they did cussing.

Wasn't this back in like 2009 or something like that? Keeping the present-tense "are" in your title is just completely unfair. Why are you so adamant that you won't simply replace that word with "were"?

guys... simmer down now. you guys are all apparently too new of coaches to know that what tanner is talking about happened *all the time* in old HD. thats why so many long timers are so adamant about having a hard-line policy, no sharing of any information whatsoever, except possibly for mentoring situations where its extremely unlikely that exchange of recruiting information could help either coach (outside of the mentoring itself).

i think its pretty ridiculous to crucify tanner for this when dozens if not hundreds of coaches participated in this back in the day. its already common knowledge, in the sense that its openly known this happened, not in the sense that everyone knows it (think, the literary definition of common knowledge). oldresorter in particular spent a great deal of effort convincing the game's creator to create fair play guidelines. so maybe rather than criticize tanner, send oldresorter a line thanking him for his part in stopping that madness.

as to the GLV comments, there were definitely inter conference battles, and every time anyone made a comment about not battling in conference, i went on this long diatribe about how even though i generally would never poach in conference (i never said i wouldn't battle in conference), it wasn't ok to explicitly agree. to my knowledge, no explicit agreement was ever made by anyone. however, there was definitely a group mentality in the conference, we wanted to be the best conference in d2 anywhere (and we were, by a lot). i can only remember one or two poaching situations, but there were battles. on a somewhat related note, the one time i did poach in conference, it resulted in a massive backlash, including death threads (the guy was crazy, but after he wouldn't let go of a guy in an early battle that he had no shot of winning, i may have been a bit brutal in my response, to make a point - it was earlier in my career, and the recruiting framework was substantially different than it is today, insofar as those kinds of tactics were possible). although, i never did actually sign the guys i "poached", i had zero intention of signing those crappy players, it was all about making a point. still, i certainly didn't try to tell others they weren't allowed to do that or anything. but anyway, a lot of really great coaches came through there and we had some great rivalries, and not a lot but some in conference battles (although almost never any poaching, especially in the days of my heavy mentoring). one time in d1 one of those coaches asked me if a guy who appeared to be a backup target was actually a backup target, and it kind of ruined HD for me for a while, because it was a guy who i respected so much... but then again, it was the least bad of about 10 collusive sitemails from that time period, and maybe i was a little harsh on him. it was possibly my worst moment in HD though, and at least top 2, i would never have been able to take pride in the mighty GLV if there were shady dealings going on.

for the record, the GLV getting so strong made it drastically harder for me to individually be successful. it was good for the conference, but bad for individual championships, because there were *so* many high end teams and so many top coaches. this was before the projection report changes when it was almost impossible to send more than 6 teams to the NT, out of lower division conferences, so the super conferences you see in some places today are really far easier to build than it was back then... we had guys with multiple championships failing to make the NT almost every season, because they couldn't make it to .500. i knew that would happen up front, and i also had declining interest which multiplied things, but it was only the fun of the competition that made being in a conference like that worth it - from a championships standpoint, it was awful.

I really don't feel like getting into semantics of past and present tenses because that could go on all night.

It makes me even more mad because of the way tanner went about it. For those few of us that had the horror of reading it, he went on about how he was ashamed and wanted some sort of forgiveness...yet turned around and deleted it five minutes later because the shame of being known as a cheater is obviously worse to tanner than internal shame coming from his conscience. Then he has the balls to show up on this thread and say he doesn't mind be called and known as a cheater...oh really tanner...then why did you delete that post???

And to top it off, late last night I site-mailed him asking what happened to the thread and he lied to me as to what happened, then he posted on this thread (having since deleted his post) acting as if it never happened and as if I was crazy.

So, the fact that a cheater tried to use lying and cowardice to cover up his unprovoked admission of guilt drives me up a wall...and that's why I'm not changing or deleting this thread until he meets the request I previously made.

Posted by nachopuzzle on 5/9/2014 8:55:00 PM (view original):
I really don't feel like getting into semantics of past and present tenses because that could go on all night.

It makes me even more mad because of the way tanner went about it. For those few of us that had the horror of reading it, he went on about how he was ashamed and wanted some sort of forgiveness...yet turned around and deleted it five minutes later because the shame of being known as a cheater is obviously worse to tanner than internal shame coming from his conscience. Then he has the balls to show up on this thread and say he doesn't mind be called and known as a cheater...oh really tanner...then why did you delete that post???

And to top it off, late last night I site-mailed him asking what happened to the thread and he lied to me as to what happened, then he posted on this thread (having since deleted his post) acting as if it never happened and as if I was crazy.

So, the fact that a cheater tried to use lying and cowardice to cover up his unprovoked admission of guilt drives me up a wall...and that's why I'm not changing or deleting this thread until he meets the request I previously made.

i think the fact he openly admitted it says something, especially given that this has all come out already, although not the specifics of who was involved... and so does the fact that others did it, too. it doesn't make it right, but still. i might be overstating things saying it happened all the time, but it was absolutely not an isolated incident.

Posted by nachopuzzle on 5/9/2014 8:55:00 PM (view original):
I really don't feel like getting into semantics of past and present tenses because that could go on all night.

It makes me even more mad because of the way tanner went about it. For those few of us that had the horror of reading it, he went on about how he was ashamed and wanted some sort of forgiveness...yet turned around and deleted it five minutes later because the shame of being known as a cheater is obviously worse to tanner than internal shame coming from his conscience. Then he has the balls to show up on this thread and say he doesn't mind be called and known as a cheater...oh really tanner...then why did you delete that post???

And to top it off, late last night I site-mailed him asking what happened to the thread and he lied to me as to what happened, then he posted on this thread (having since deleted his post) acting as if it never happened and as if I was crazy.

So, the fact that a cheater tried to use lying and cowardice to cover up his unprovoked admission of guilt drives me up a wall...and that's why I'm not changing or deleting this thread until he meets the request I previously made.

Past and present tense is NOT "semantics." When you use present-tense, you're making an accusation that is punishable right now. An accusation that is untrue. When you use PAST tense, you're making a true statement of fact. That's not just "semantics."

As for the other stuff (site mails and things) that's between you and him. But right now, your post title is unfair. That's just not really debatable.

Posted by gillispie1 on 5/9/2014 8:58:00 PM (view original):

Posted by nachopuzzle on 5/9/2014 8:55:00 PM (view original):
I really don't feel like getting into semantics of past and present tenses because that could go on all night.

It makes me even more mad because of the way tanner went about it. For those few of us that had the horror of reading it, he went on about how he was ashamed and wanted some sort of forgiveness...yet turned around and deleted it five minutes later because the shame of being known as a cheater is obviously worse to tanner than internal shame coming from his conscience. Then he has the balls to show up on this thread and say he doesn't mind be called and known as a cheater...oh really tanner...then why did you delete that post???

And to top it off, late last night I site-mailed him asking what happened to the thread and he lied to me as to what happened, then he posted on this thread (having since deleted his post) acting as if it never happened and as if I was crazy.

So, the fact that a cheater tried to use lying and cowardice to cover up his unprovoked admission of guilt drives me up a wall...and that's why I'm not changing or deleting this thread until he meets the request I previously made.

i think the fact he openly admitted it says something, especially given that this has all come out already, although not the specifics of who was involved... and so does the fact that others did it, too. it doesn't make it right, but still. i might be overstating things saying it happened all the time, but it was absolutely not an isolated incident.

Yeah, if you consider admitting something, then deleting it, then lying about it's existence, then only admitting it again after you'd been pretty much pressured to do so as what constitutes "openly admitting" something, then sure...I guess he openly admitted it.