Posted by pinkeye on 6/6/2014 12:28:00 PM (view original):
i've thought the press was brokenly overpowered for years, but the only anecdotal evidence i can give:

my N Alabama team is not incredible, but i'll have 9+ wins in one of the best d2 conferences around. sitting at 8-3, 8-0 against non press teams.

in the 3 losses i'm averaging 23.6 turnovers against FCP. not a number i would ever take exception with in this game....until taking a closer look and realizing the 3 teams COMBINED have TWO players above 70 defense rating. just seems silly.

My point excatly. If Ath and Def mean so much, then why teams with low def and Ath ratings are doing real good.

Seeing a couple of familiar Iba coaches in this thread, and being stuck in Chicago Midway on a Friday night, I'll put in my two cents worth as coach of a FCP team.

Interesting data on the TO advantage. As a FCP coach, one of the things I hate most about the set is the propensity to foul more than other sets. I'd be really curious how much more FCP teams foul, both number of fouls committed and free throws attempted by opponents. Fouls and their domino effects on depth charts and playing time are the bane of FCP coaches. TOs vs fouls/free throws would be an interesting comparison.

I'd love to give zone a try, but I'd get shredded during the switching period since I'm in the same conference as pinkeye. if you built a zone team the same way many FCP teams are built, with the same emphasis on key categories, I think you could build a team built to draw fouls and not commit them. Maybe even uptempo to increase foul advantage. Part of me wants to say zone is not perceived as being any good because of the way teams are built (less of the key categories) because if you wanted to recruit athletes, you're probably not running zone.

But this doesn't explain your situations of finding FCP teams with deficient ATH/DEF having success. I might even be one of those examples you cited.

Posted by davefilby on 6/6/2014 10:56:00 PM (view original):
Seeing a couple of familiar Iba coaches in this thread, and being stuck in Chicago Midway on a Friday night, I'll put in my two cents worth as coach of a FCP team.

Interesting data on the TO advantage. As a FCP coach, one of the things I hate most about the set is the propensity to foul more than other sets. I'd be really curious how much more FCP teams foul, both number of fouls committed and free throws attempted by opponents. Fouls and their domino effects on depth charts and playing time are the bane of FCP coaches. TOs vs fouls/free throws would be an interesting comparison.

I'd love to give zone a try, but I'd get shredded during the switching period since I'm in the same conference as pinkeye. if you built a zone team the same way many FCP teams are built, with the same emphasis on key categories, I think you could build a team built to draw fouls and not commit them. Maybe even uptempo to increase foul advantage. Part of me wants to say zone is not perceived as being any good because of the way teams are built (less of the key categories) because if you wanted to recruit athletes, you're probably not running zone.

But this doesn't explain your situations of finding FCP teams with deficient ATH/DEF having success. I might even be one of those examples you cited.

haha, you're an example now i guess..


my backup pg - 62ath 72spd 69bh 78pass A- IQ...5 turnovers in 19 minutes

his primary defender - 51ath 65spd 36def A- IQ...5 steals in 19 minutes, 2 fouls


just not seeing much of a connection lol. ANYWAYS good game dave, i'll get you @ home

Posted by pinkeye on 6/7/2014 8:46:00 AM (view original):

Posted by davefilby on 6/6/2014 10:56:00 PM (view original):
Seeing a couple of familiar Iba coaches in this thread, and being stuck in Chicago Midway on a Friday night, I'll put in my two cents worth as coach of a FCP team.

Interesting data on the TO advantage. As a FCP coach, one of the things I hate most about the set is the propensity to foul more than other sets. I'd be really curious how much more FCP teams foul, both number of fouls committed and free throws attempted by opponents. Fouls and their domino effects on depth charts and playing time are the bane of FCP coaches. TOs vs fouls/free throws would be an interesting comparison.

I'd love to give zone a try, but I'd get shredded during the switching period since I'm in the same conference as pinkeye. if you built a zone team the same way many FCP teams are built, with the same emphasis on key categories, I think you could build a team built to draw fouls and not commit them. Maybe even uptempo to increase foul advantage. Part of me wants to say zone is not perceived as being any good because of the way teams are built (less of the key categories) because if you wanted to recruit athletes, you're probably not running zone.

But this doesn't explain your situations of finding FCP teams with deficient ATH/DEF having success. I might even be one of those examples you cited.

haha, you're an example now i guess..


my backup pg - 62ath 72spd 69bh 78pass A- IQ...5 turnovers in 19 minutes

his primary defender - 51ath 65spd 36def A- IQ...5 steals in 19 minutes, 2 fouls


just not seeing much of a connection lol. ANYWAYS good game dave, i'll get you @ home

I'll admit, last night's game was strange in a bunch of ways. Strange things happen in small sample sizes (one game). In an average game, the defender you mentioned generates 1-2 steals and 3 fouls. And that's versus teams that aren't as good as yours.

That defender does lead my team in fouls per game and second in fouls per minute (behind a freshman). He splits time at the backup 1 & 2, and with the differing substitution patterns of FCP vs zone, those two "matched up" (and I'm not convinced FCP in the engine works in that way, but someone could probably convince me) for 8:21 of game time. He spent a significant amount of time vs your Soph starting PG too. But YES, my defender should not be generating those types of numbers.

We committed 26 fouls, you shot 28 free throws. Shot 64%
You committed 17 fouls, yet we shot 24 free throws. Shot 79%
That seems like an outlier too.

$1 says you roast us at your place.

Another example. This SIM team has 1 guy over 60 def rating, poor ATH and smokes me by 35 points. Only thing SIM got is good IQ.  How does this make sense, should be a foul machine. Yes I should of lost, but not by 35 points.  My question is how is this a good press team?
http://www.whatifsports.com/hd/TeamProfile/Ratings.aspx?tid=6433

The short answer to your question is: Upperclassmen - IQ.

The real answer:

They're not a very good press team.  They don't have a lot of Speed, Defense, or Athleticism.  What they did have was: your team as an opponent.  Honestly, your team is set up to get destroyed by press teams and to generally underperform as a fastbreak team.

PG - Fuston - BH / P of 68 / 64 and Henkel 49/35
SG - Atchison - BH / P of 64 / 45
SF - Dickinson - BH / P of 38 / 46

Fuston and maaaaaaaaaaaaybe Atchison can survive against a press.  Survive.  Add in that you're running fastbreak with those scores and it's over.  Note that you shot a non-awful percentage in that game.  It's just that your guys can't take care of the ball.

Short answer to summarize the long answer: you don't have the personnel to handle the ball against a press, let alone in a fastbreak offense.

What scores do you need to "survive the press"?  

What should I be comparing my BH/PASS to?  Their DEF/SPD?

Oh, you.  Dawwww, you.  That's adorable, you asking questions like those.  It's almost like you don't know better than I do!

What scores do you need to "survive the press"?

I dunno, exactly.  I do know that a sum total BH/P of 109 at SG and 84 (!) at SF is going to lead to a lot of turnovers against any decent team, and more against press teams.  Using the Trentonjoe Rule Of 70 (D2), I want the BH/P at the 1 and 2 to be pushing 140 at a minimum.  I want other things too, of course, but in BH/P I'm not comfortable below that.  I often treat SF's like you do (little guys) and I want them comfortably into triple digits.

What should I be comparing my BH/PASS to?  Their DEF/SPD?

I dunno, exactly.  I compare them to my standards as loosely described above.  I don't compare them with what the other team has.

What are your answers to those questions, TJ?

If I had ever played a season in Iba, I'd take over that AB team next season!  The 3 seniors aren't very good, so that's no loss.  That team will return 9 seniors next season and, of all players, Wooldridge will have a Sr/5 season to go!  Norton is a very nice D2 PG as well.   That team is just perfectly set up to make the second round of the NT next season and be turned into a monster!   

That said, llamanunts is right; AB isn't that great this season.  However, it has an enormous Stamina and depth advantage over Ohio Valley. My questions: (1) why isn't Kifer getting on the court as the back-up PG and (2)  Why haven't Jaeger and Dashiell been summarily executed for their crimes against D2 basketball!?   Go ahead and start Oja with Jaeger backing him up.  Dashiell should be moved to mop-up and then cut.  Kifer needs significant minutes and you need to run normal tempo under any condition except trailing at the end of the game.

Also wth is Henkel doing getting tie as the back up pg with a 48 bh and a 35 pass?

Henkel is there because of his def of 65. I really don't have any other BH, Pas guys.  Keifer def is hurting his playing chances.  The more I look at it the shittier recruiting I realized I did.

Well, Henkel's 'floor game' hurts you more against press teams than Keifer's defense would. In that game, against a press team, you would have been better off playing Kifer over Henkel.

Tha't what I think I'm going to do. Change them 2 around depending on FCP and other defense.  Thanks guys

Knight Final Four systems:
DI -  M2M  3 
        Press 1

DII - M2M 3
        Press 1

DIII - M2M 2
         Press 1 (with very high zone IQ)
         Zone 1

The only offensive system not represented is fastbreak.

I'm experimenting fast break. I'm using speed guys with high ft and not worrying about Per. I out ft my opponent's by a lot. I just need to shore up my def.