for Christ sake, Chris Paul has a higher career win shares than James...go to basketball reference.com and look it up. So much for stats only.

BTW, he rates 63rd in active players and 307th all time (370th?I can't remember the exact number) in Elo at the same website. Obviously, I'm not the only one that seems to think he is over rated. Of course, this is a fan rating that does not take into effect the sabermatics involved. It does appear to justify my observations to some degree, however (or at least show that I am not in the minority).

Just for the record, I am not a troll. I happen to think he is over rated. I thought as much when he was in Cleveland, and after watching nearly every game for four years here in Miami I am even more sure of my feelings about James being over rated. Can he play basketball? Yes. Is he "the King"? No. Is he a team player? No. Would I have him on my team? No. Would every player on the Dream Team (except Laettner) have taken him to school? Yes, I think so.

i don't really care about him one way or another, i just think its interesting how strongly people feel about him. but 63rd best active player? i'm pretty sure that is outside of the realm of reasonable. 

I agree with you about the #63 rating......I would rate him much higher for active players. "The King" is stretching it a lot for me, however.

my wife agrees with you gillispie.......she doesn't care one way or another.....but she sure loved Gary Payton when we lived in Seattle!

Haters gonna hate.

LeBron is the has been the best player for awhile now, to say otherwise is just being a hater.

Posted by stinenavy on 7/16/2014 3:53:00 PM (view original):
Haters gonna hate.

LeBron is the has been the best player for awhile now, to say otherwise is just being a hater.

So, if I said Kevin Durant is the best player in the world would I be hating?

What I wrote, not quite what I meant. I meant over the course of the last 4 or so seasons. Durant was on par or exceeding last season, but not cumulative for the prior few seasons.

The "haters gonna hate" was more on the ELO rating that was brought up. It's a system where it'll compare two players, and the fan selects the better of the two. I imagine there's people that will go on there and vote for Malik Allen, Pepe Sanchez, and others, above LeBron to affect his standing.

Right now, saying either Durant or LeBron is the best player is fine. There's a large gap IMO between those two and Chris Paul, Blake Griffin, and others.

Career WS/48 LeBron is 5th.  You can't just ignore sample size and say, "he look, there are hundreds of people with twice the career games who have more career win shares than LeBron does!"  Good for them, they must have been at least half as good as he is.

Also 2nd all time in career PER.

And I don't know where you got your numbers.  According to Basketball-Reference, in spite of still likely having at least 6 or 7 years left in him, LeBron is already 12th in NBA history in offensive win shares, 41st in defensive win shares, and 15th in total win shares.  He's less than 5 wins behind Kobe, who has been playing since 7 years before LeBron showed up.  I don't know where you found a number above 300.  That's way, way off.

Sorry, that was ELO.  I forgot we were going to ignore stats and use what some ****** off Cleveland fans said since the stats are highly indicative of LeBron being comfortably one of the 5 best players in NBA history.

I thought ELO was a band from the 70s, right???

Posted by smackawits on 7/16/2014 3:23:00 PM (view original):
for Christ sake, Chris Paul has a higher career win shares than James...go to basketball reference.com and look it up. So much for stats only.

BTW, he rates 63rd in active players and 307th all time (370th?I can't remember the exact number) in Elo at the same website. Obviously, I'm not the only one that seems to think he is over rated. Of course, this is a fan rating that does not take into effect the sabermatics involved. It does appear to justify my observations to some degree, however (or at least show that I am not in the minority).

Just for the record, I am not a troll. I happen to think he is over rated. I thought as much when he was in Cleveland, and after watching nearly every game for four years here in Miami I am even more sure of my feelings about James being over rated. Can he play basketball? Yes. Is he "the King"? No. Is he a team player? No. Would I have him on my team? No. Would every player on the Dream Team (except Laettner) have taken him to school? Yes, I think so.

You, sir, are a hater. 

Posted by michgoblue2 on 7/16/2014 11:47:00 PM (view original):

Posted by smackawits on 7/16/2014 3:23:00 PM (view original):
for Christ sake, Chris Paul has a higher career win shares than James...go to basketball reference.com and look it up. So much for stats only.

BTW, he rates 63rd in active players and 307th all time (370th?I can't remember the exact number) in Elo at the same website. Obviously, I'm not the only one that seems to think he is over rated. Of course, this is a fan rating that does not take into effect the sabermatics involved. It does appear to justify my observations to some degree, however (or at least show that I am not in the minority).

Just for the record, I am not a troll. I happen to think he is over rated. I thought as much when he was in Cleveland, and after watching nearly every game for four years here in Miami I am even more sure of my feelings about James being over rated. Can he play basketball? Yes. Is he "the King"? No. Is he a team player? No. Would I have him on my team? No. Would every player on the Dream Team (except Laettner) have taken him to school? Yes, I think so.

You, sir, are a hater. 

Yes, I am not an admirer of the court jester LeBron. I do think highly of Durant, though (as well as many others).

Just an example of Selfish, Not A Team Player... game 2 of the finals:

He responded with a statement game, sure—35 points to lead all scorers, 10 boards, and some vicious defense down the stretch, most notable a smothering of Tony Parker to keep it a one-point game with 1:43 left. But the game still hung in the balance. Maybe everything leading up to it should have been a clue that James had his mind on more than just scoring.

Close, late, San Antonio's help defense naturally cheated toward James. What superstar wouldn't want the ball in his hands in the crucial seconds? With Miami down one and just over two to play, James saw Duncan leaning a little bit too much toward the lane, and fired the ball to Chris Bosh in the corner for a three attempt. Miss.

Few expect the best player in the world to give up the ball in this situation. Even fewer expect it twice in a row. So the next time down the floor (after James's stop of Parker), James did it again. He drove to his left, drawing Duncan all the way into the paint, one of four Spurs surrounding him. That left Bosh all alone.

"I caught Tim Duncan peeking at me a little bit," James said, "and I was able to find C.B. in the corner in one of his favorite spots on the floor and he knocked it down."

It takes a certain mindset and a unique skillset to properly play the point forward position. You have to be a scorer, but a scorer who's not afraid of the outcome when you pass for the higher percentage play—or of the criticism if your teammate doesn't close the deal. It's an unfair truth that James would be getting killed today if Bosh missed that second three and San Antonio won. That's always a risk—just like taking every shot himself would have been—but James is secure enough to play smart basketball. Don't underestimate that.

Said Bosh: "Even if he's hot, he'll still hit you if you're wide open. He's the most unselfish player I've ever played with."

Source: Deadspin