Posted by trophaeum on 8/1/2014 5:56:00 PM (view original):
This is William Kammer.

http://www.whatifsports.com/hd/PlayerHistory/RatingsHistory.aspx?tid=14186&pid=2699632

I don't remember what he started at, but I think it was like 22 WE. He was a bench guy the first two seasons, then he was a starter for half the year, then his entire SR year. I recruited him because his starting ratings in per, bh, pass were already in the 70's. Even if he never improved, he was still highly rated.

When I scouted him, he was high/high in Def,Per, BH, Pass. With better WE he would have been 60/80/67 ath/spd/d with 95/100/100/85 per/bh/p/stam. As you can see, he never got there. Missing at a minimum 10 points in D, 8 in PER, 10 in BH, 15 in P and 5 in stam. In the end, his ratings were still enough to make him worthwhile recruiting.

But I can't help but think about the player he could have been versus the player he was. And this is with a 22 WE. He would have been truly awful with a single digit WE.

you could have gotten him some real minutes earlier on and improved the WE much quicker

There's a big difference in possible growth between a 1 and a 9. If you post some # I can give you a good idea of his projected growth.

He's my fresh PG. WE is 5. I'm thinking of RS him because I have 2 PGs ahead of him. But I'm putting in the press this year and he got 14 mins the first exhibition game.... Is that enough or should I RS him??

Any opinions before the season starts??

If he has single-digit WE, redshirting him will be almost completely useless, unless you just like him better in next year's class than this year's. If you want growth for a guy with WE that low, he needs to be a four-year starter

That's what I thought.... :(  I just like him next year a little better because he will get more playing time!

Posted by bhansalid00 on 8/1/2014 2:52:00 PM (view original):
zbrent, would you mind posting how he starts next season in terms of ratings when that becomes available?

Season	Type	A	SPD	REB	DE	BLK	LP	PE	BH	P	WE	ST	DU	FT	OVR
94	Current	62	59	24	53	18	13	65	37	25	11	67	67	B+	501
93	Season End	62	59	24	53	18	13	66	37	25	11	68	68	B+	504
93	Season Start	57	56	29	49	15	16	61	32	21	9	65	64	B+	474

The key to the low WE guys are:

1. Starting them as much as possible. Starting all 26 games will give you about 4 points of WE in the 10-20 range. Guys who start with a 1 or 2 will not gain any WE, I am not sure about the 3-9 range. I suspect you should see a 1-3 gain for them.

2. Maximizing the blues, particularly the HIHI's. It's not unusual to get 7-9 points of growth from a guy in the 12-15 WE range (I don't have any data lower than that right now) from a blue rating. I am not afraid to put 30+ minutes into a skill if I think it is important.

3. Having realistic expectations. They aren't going to grow 50+ points a season, they won't max out, they won't hit A+ IQ and most of the time they'll be role players.

4. Don't overspend for them. They are a value because so many people ignore them. IF you can afford to start them, sign them for the $110. If you can't, get them late for cheap.

Posted by zbrent716 on 8/1/2014 2:14:00 PM (view original):
Starting WE of 9:

Ratings History

Season	Type	A	SPD	REB	DE	BLK	LP	PE	BH	P	WE	ST	DU	FT	OVR
93	Current	62	59	24	53	18	13	66	37	25	11	68	68	B+	504
93	Season Start	57	56	29	49	15	16	61	32	21	9	65	64	B+	474

30 Points gain with 26 regular season starts and over 15 mpg (15.2 average, but that counts the 3 games after the reg season where he got 3, 1, and 4 minutes each).

Minutes mean very little (if any) in the WE growth department with low WE guys. That guy probably would have grown those 2 points with 26 starts and 8 minutes.

Here's the ratings history of a PG that started with 12 WE (first line is where he started, last line is the end of his senior year).  Started him 121 of 124 games during his career.  He graduated with ~90 points of improvement left on the table.

ATH

SPD

REB

DE

BLK

LP

PE

BH

P

WE

ST

DU

TOT

56	69	14	58	11	27	25	51	24	12	60	21	428
60	75	12	62	11	27	30	50	35	15	67	26	470
63	79	10	66	11	27	38	50	47	19	71	32	513
66	82	8	71	11	27	47	49	58	24	74	37	554
68	85	6	74	11	27	56	47	68	29	76	40	587

Posted by zbrent716 on 8/4/2014 10:37:00 AM (view original):

Posted by bhansalid00 on 8/1/2014 2:52:00 PM (view original):
zbrent, would you mind posting how he starts next season in terms of ratings when that becomes available?

Ratings History

Season	Type	A	SPD	REB	DE	BLK	LP	PE	BH	P	WE	ST	DU	FT	OVR
94	Current	62	59	24	53	18	13	65	37	25	11	67	67	B+	501
93	Season End	62	59	24	53	18	13	66	37	25	11	68	68	B+	504
93	Season Start	57	56	29	49	15	16	61	32	21	9	65	64	B+	474

And - interestingly - he's cool with taking the redshirt as a Sophomore.

I'm not yet sure whether to leave it on him or not (I have 5 seniors and some other options for PT at the 3) but if I do it'd be a nice IQ boost (though probably not much net gain in ratings).

Thanks for posting that zbrent - zero growth (or decline) is pretty much exactly what I expected in the offseason for a 11 WE player. A redshirt's an interesting idea if you have no freshman candidates for the RS. Like you said, won't do anything for his ratings but maybe helps his IQ be above-average as an upperclassman.

Posted by Trentonjoe on 8/4/2014 10:58:00 AM (view original):

Posted by zbrent716 on 8/1/2014 2:14:00 PM (view original):
Starting WE of 9:

Ratings History

Season	Type	A	SPD	REB	DE	BLK	LP	PE	BH	P	WE	ST	DU	FT	OVR
93	Current	62	59	24	53	18	13	66	37	25	11	68	68	B+	504
93	Season Start	57	56	29	49	15	16	61	32	21	9	65	64	B+	474

30 Points gain with 26 regular season starts and over 15 mpg (15.2 average, but that counts the 3 games after the reg season where he got 3, 1, and 4 minutes each).

Minutes mean very little (if any) in the WE growth department with low WE guys. That guy probably would have grown those 2 points with 26 starts and 8 minutes.

Is that just for low WE guys or players in general? I've read in other forums that starts and mins both help grow WE, but they didn't mention which one has more of a WE effect.

Here's a guy I just signed in D3 Rupp, as an example of a useful low-WE player.  I didn't really have a place for him to start this season, so I informed of RS with the intention of starting him a lot coming off the RS (and the RS will help the slow IQ growth).  I figure he's already good enough to contribute and his H/H Spd will eventually make him a nice SG/SF scoring option for my Flex.

Name	Pos.	GPA	FG%	FT%	A	SPD	REB	DE	BLK	LP	PE	BH	P	WE	ST	DU	TOT
Branden Woodard	SG	2.36	54.7	64.1	58	41	15	56	11	19	74	50	37	15	71	61	508

Hm colors didn't show up. 
He's H/H Spd, low-H Per and BH..
avg in Reb, Def, ST, FT..
low Ath, Blk, LP, Pass