I can't go all the way to saying that elites shouldn't have set expectations.  That is just too far in my opinion.

I definitely agree that firings at DI should probably be ramped up, although as somebody said earlier; the suggestion that an elite should have to go to the FF every four years is just absurd.  There should be specific expectations that should be laid out when you get the email from the school president when you get a new job.  Include a "We are expecting" section.

I've also long been a fan of updating the 'longshot' part of the jobs process.  Currently it seems like almost all longshot applications are rejected on the next cycle; no real difference between that and not qualified.  I would much rather see the liklihood increased, perhaps to a 50/50 shot, but that the longshot decision isn't made until say the 11 AM EST cycle on the LAST day of jobs (obviously unless a coach that was qualified applies and gets it sooner).  So a coach would have to weigh whether they wanted to wait that long and maybe see other jobs that they are qualified for get filled.

Yes, what dcy said!

Posted by acn24 on 8/15/2014 10:16:00 AM (view original):
I can't go all the way to saying that elites shouldn't have set expectations.  That is just too far in my opinion.

I definitely agree that firings at DI should probably be ramped up, although as somebody said earlier; the suggestion that an elite should have to go to the FF every four years is just absurd.  There should be specific expectations that should be laid out when you get the email from the school president when you get a new job.  Include a "We are expecting" section.

I've also long been a fan of updating the 'longshot' part of the jobs process.  Currently it seems like almost all longshot applications are rejected on the next cycle; no real difference between that and not qualified.  I would much rather see the liklihood increased, perhaps to a 50/50 shot, but that the longshot decision isn't made until say the 11 AM EST cycle on the LAST day of jobs (obviously unless a coach that was qualified applies and gets it sooner).  So a coach would have to weigh whether they wanted to wait that long and maybe see other jobs that they are qualified for get filled.

The final four may be too much of an expectation I definitly agree but I also think if we are giving goals to coaches or they get fired we need to make some more difficult otherwise we will be in the same situation where it's impossible to get fired. Maybe 2 easier goals 1 medium goal and then 1 hard goal so for instance...

KEEP IN MIND THIS IS FOR AN A+ BIG 6 SCHOOL

4 season contract

EASY 1- Make the post-season all 4 seasons
EASY 2- Maintain an average top 100 RPI
MEDIUM 3- Finish a season in the top 25 (or maybe top 15?)
HARD 4- Win a conference tournament

If the coach achieves the 2 easy goals he will get his contract renewal but this would make it very easy to understand why a coach gets fired if he missed 3 out of 4 of these goals.

WIS doesn't care about making the game more palatable for the users, they believe if you want to pay your money you can stay at a job forever.

The Big 6 schools are generally about 90% full, I don't support changing the logic to make it easier to get those jobs. I would like to see a change on the jobs logic getting rid of "Longshot" and "Keep Looking". I'm about 0 for 100 on getting one of those jobs. Should just scrap those and have everything be Step Backwards, Qualified, or Not Qualified.

Posted by stinenavy on 8/15/2014 11:28:00 AM (view original):
WIS doesn't care about making the game more palatable for the users, they believe if you want to pay your money you can stay at a job forever.

The Big 6 schools are generally about 90% full, I don't support changing the logic to make it easier to get those jobs. I would like to see a change on the jobs logic getting rid of "Longshot" and "Keep Looking". I'm about 0 for 100 on getting one of those jobs. Should just scrap those and have everything be Step Backwards, Qualified, or Not Qualified.

Easiest thing they could do, but will they do it?

Winning a conference tournament is really not enough to renew a contract for more than one season. I can't be the only one here who has heard of Dennis Felton. Fired nine months after winning a CT, and he was at a very low prestige big six school. 

Here's kinda simple expectations for an A+ baseline school: have A+ prestige. If your prestige drops down to B+ or so (outside your first few seasons), you're toast. If your prestige stays at A- for several seasons and you are unable to get it back to A+, you're toast. JMO

Posted by tarvolon on 8/15/2014 12:01:00 PM (view original):
Winning a conference tournament is really not enough to renew a contract for more than one season. I can't be the only one here who has heard of Dennis Felton. Fired nine months after winning a CT, and he was at a very low prestige big six school. 

Here's kinda simple expectations for an A+ baseline school: have A+ prestige. If your prestige drops down to B+ or so (outside your first few seasons), you're toast. If your prestige stays at A- for several seasons and you are unable to get it back to A+, you're toast. JMO

Have you ever been in a truly elite conference?  Saying that winning a CT shouldn't amount for much completely depends on the conference.  Allen ACC is an extreme example, but since my last CT at Duke I have struggled to a National Title, 4 Final Fours, 5 Elite 8s, and 4 Sweet 16s.

If you're going to tie firings to prestige they you will need to redo the prestige calculation.  You can't judge a coach on a metric that depends on the other 11 coaches in your conference.  I also think you don't realize how difficult it is to do a rebuild in a BCS conference.  It isn't like DII or DIII where any halfway decent coach can turn a team around within their first 3 seasons.

Posted by acn24 on 8/15/2014 1:36:00 PM (view original):

Posted by tarvolon on 8/15/2014 12:01:00 PM (view original):
Winning a conference tournament is really not enough to renew a contract for more than one season. I can't be the only one here who has heard of Dennis Felton. Fired nine months after winning a CT, and he was at a very low prestige big six school. 

Here's kinda simple expectations for an A+ baseline school: have A+ prestige. If your prestige drops down to B+ or so (outside your first few seasons), you're toast. If your prestige stays at A- for several seasons and you are unable to get it back to A+, you're toast. JMO

Have you ever been in a truly elite conference?  Saying that winning a CT shouldn't amount for much completely depends on the conference.  Allen ACC is an extreme example, but since my last CT at Duke I have struggled to a National Title, 4 Final Fours, 5 Elite 8s, and 4 Sweet 16s.

If you're going to tie firings to prestige they you will need to redo the prestige calculation.  You can't judge a coach on a metric that depends on the other 11 coaches in your conference.  I also think you don't realize how difficult it is to do a rebuild in a BCS conference.  It isn't like DII or DIII where any halfway decent coach can turn a team around within their first 3 seasons.

I didn't say that winning a conference tournament was easy. If anything in my post even implied that, I apologize for my lack of clarity. But a conference tournament title is also based entirely on four games. You can literally go 0-26 and win your conference tournament with four good sims in a row. Is that likely to happen? Of course not. But it does illustrate the dangers of overvaluing the CT. Personally, I put more weight on a regular season conference title (which of course is not even tracked in this game, but whatever) than a CT title. If you're in the bottom half of your conference year after year and happen to have four good sims in a row, that shouldn't guarantee you an extra four years on the job. Felton is still a good example. 

As far as prestige goes, I didn't realize that the calculation depended on your conference. That is a fairly significant flaw in my idea, and thanks for pointing it out. Back to the drawing board. 

I'd also say that if you finish in last place in the regular season conference standings for 4 years in a row, you should get fired.