If a player is on your division list at the start of recruiting, is there any chance he would reject cv/hv during the first cycle?

In theory, he shouldn't. But....I've had it happen before. It's not right, but it has happened, to me anyway.

Posted by emy1013 on 9/9/2014 6:06:00 AM (view original):
In theory, he shouldn't. But....I've had it happen before. It's not right, but it has happened, to me anyway.

i disagree with this... in theory, he should with some probability, the way i understand it. thats why the littler tools exist, so you can reduce the chance of your HVs and CVs being rejected. my experience is HVs are rarely rejected, but CVs frequently are (when they are your opening move). i am pretty sure that was by design, and it happens in all divisions. the rate of rejection is higher if the player is already considering another school, but its still non zero when the guy is considering nobody. i do think players who are "lower" than your school may accept with 100%, however.

OP, if you really want a guy in your division to consider you, and you definitely won't redshirt him, use a start to guarantee you get considered, then put in your HV (or whatever you think is the minumum to be considered), then pull the start the following cycle with a redshirt promise followed by a no redshirt promise (both in the same cycle). the net effect of the start -> redshirt -> no redshirt is 0, so it just costs you 30 bucks, and of course, you can't redshirt the guy (unless you go back and promise again, most likely, with some additional effort).

you can also use calls/letters/SVs if you really want the guy (don't want to risk an HV rejection), its not THAT expensive. or, you can just send 2 HVs if you think 1 is enough - in two single batches of 1 HV - so that its highly unlikely you will get hit on both.

Posted by gillispie1 on 9/9/2014 11:04:00 AM (view original):

Posted by emy1013 on 9/9/2014 6:06:00 AM (view original):
In theory, he shouldn't. But....I've had it happen before. It's not right, but it has happened, to me anyway.

i disagree with this... in theory, he should with some probability, the way i understand it. thats why the littler tools exist, so you can reduce the chance of your HVs and CVs being rejected. my experience is HVs are rarely rejected, but CVs frequently are (when they are your opening move). i am pretty sure that was by design, and it happens in all divisions. the rate of rejection is higher if the player is already considering another school, but its still non zero when the guy is considering nobody. i do think players who are "lower" than your school may accept with 100%, however.

OP, if you really want a guy in your division to consider you, and you definitely won't redshirt him, use a start to guarantee you get considered, then put in your HV (or whatever you think is the minumum to be considered), then pull the start the following cycle with a redshirt promise followed by a no redshirt promise (both in the same cycle). the net effect of the start -> redshirt -> no redshirt is 0, so it just costs you 30 bucks, and of course, you can't redshirt the guy (unless you go back and promise again, most likely, with some additional effort).

you can also use calls/letters/SVs if you really want the guy (don't want to risk an HV rejection), its not THAT expensive. or, you can just send 2 HVs if you think 1 is enough - in two single batches of 1 HV - so that its highly unlikely you will get hit on both.

how do you go from redshirt promise followed by no redshirt in the same cycle?  is that just withdrawing it before the next cycle appears?

Posted by the0nlyis on 9/9/2014 12:12:00 PM (view original):

Posted by gillispie1 on 9/9/2014 11:04:00 AM (view original):

Posted by emy1013 on 9/9/2014 6:06:00 AM (view original):
In theory, he shouldn't. But....I've had it happen before. It's not right, but it has happened, to me anyway.

i disagree with this... in theory, he should with some probability, the way i understand it. thats why the littler tools exist, so you can reduce the chance of your HVs and CVs being rejected. my experience is HVs are rarely rejected, but CVs frequently are (when they are your opening move). i am pretty sure that was by design, and it happens in all divisions. the rate of rejection is higher if the player is already considering another school, but its still non zero when the guy is considering nobody. i do think players who are "lower" than your school may accept with 100%, however.

OP, if you really want a guy in your division to consider you, and you definitely won't redshirt him, use a start to guarantee you get considered, then put in your HV (or whatever you think is the minumum to be considered), then pull the start the following cycle with a redshirt promise followed by a no redshirt promise (both in the same cycle). the net effect of the start -> redshirt -> no redshirt is 0, so it just costs you 30 bucks, and of course, you can't redshirt the guy (unless you go back and promise again, most likely, with some additional effort).

you can also use calls/letters/SVs if you really want the guy (don't want to risk an HV rejection), its not THAT expensive. or, you can just send 2 HVs if you think 1 is enough - in two single batches of 1 HV - so that its highly unlikely you will get hit on both.

how do you go from redshirt promise followed by no redshirt in the same cycle?  is that just withdrawing it before the next cycle appears?

If you're being considered and the only thing you've done is promised him a start and offered a schollie, here's how to undo the start.  Inform of redshirt (hit submit on the recruiting screen).  This undoes the promised start.  Then inform of non-redshirt and hit submit (this undoes the redshirt).  Do this on the same cycle.  As gillispie said, your net effort here is 0, so you need to put forth some effort to get considered again, which can be something like 2-3 HVs or a CV.

Posted by the0nlyis on 9/9/2014 12:12:00 PM (view original):

Posted by gillispie1 on 9/9/2014 11:04:00 AM (view original):

Posted by emy1013 on 9/9/2014 6:06:00 AM (view original):
In theory, he shouldn't. But....I've had it happen before. It's not right, but it has happened, to me anyway.

i disagree with this... in theory, he should with some probability, the way i understand it. thats why the littler tools exist, so you can reduce the chance of your HVs and CVs being rejected. my experience is HVs are rarely rejected, but CVs frequently are (when they are your opening move). i am pretty sure that was by design, and it happens in all divisions. the rate of rejection is higher if the player is already considering another school, but its still non zero when the guy is considering nobody. i do think players who are "lower" than your school may accept with 100%, however.

OP, if you really want a guy in your division to consider you, and you definitely won't redshirt him, use a start to guarantee you get considered, then put in your HV (or whatever you think is the minumum to be considered), then pull the start the following cycle with a redshirt promise followed by a no redshirt promise (both in the same cycle). the net effect of the start -> redshirt -> no redshirt is 0, so it just costs you 30 bucks, and of course, you can't redshirt the guy (unless you go back and promise again, most likely, with some additional effort).

you can also use calls/letters/SVs if you really want the guy (don't want to risk an HV rejection), its not THAT expensive. or, you can just send 2 HVs if you think 1 is enough - in two single batches of 1 HV - so that its highly unlikely you will get hit on both.

how do you go from redshirt promise followed by no redshirt in the same cycle?  is that just withdrawing it before the next cycle appears?

you can't withdraw anything promise related anymore (assuming you are talking about going to the history page to withdraw). seble changed that after i found a bunch of problems with it, it was pretty buggy, so no more withdrawing for any promises. you also can't withdraw right around the cycle rollover because of other bugs. i think now that withdraw system is pretty good, but it was honestly pretty crappy when it came out. i was even able to get free scouting trip responses out of it (not that i used it, just theorized something like that might be possible, so i investigated and reported).

anyway, back to your question - once you hit the redshirt, and send, then the redshirt box change to "no redshirt". its still 10 dollars. you can send it at the same time or later. to pull a start or a minutes promise, you always want to redshirt/no redshirt in the same cycle - if you just redshirted and then pulled it the next cycle, the guy would likely stop considering you for the redshirt cycle, because a redshirt is often a substantial negative. so, you promise redshirt and then immediately go back and spend 10 dollars to promise no redshirt. after doing so, there is zero penalty for the redshirt, but you lose the positive boost from any promises you had previously (obviously, that would be totally broken if not!). you can't get the "free redshirt" anymore though, like when you don't inform, but you put it on at the start of the season to see if the guy will take it - he will never take it if you promised him you wouldn't.

So it sounds like you've had success R/S a kid after doing the start/RS/No RS switcheroo and then putting in more effort to overcome the No RS last action, is that right?  I thought once you slapped the No R/S on a kid, that was it, he'd never take a R/S again no matter how much effort you subsequently put into him.  Is this not the case?

Posted by gillispie1 on 9/9/2014 11:04:00 AM (view original):

Posted by emy1013 on 9/9/2014 6:06:00 AM (view original):
In theory, he shouldn't. But....I've had it happen before. It's not right, but it has happened, to me anyway.

i disagree with this... in theory, he should with some probability, the way i understand it. thats why the littler tools exist, so you can reduce the chance of your HVs and CVs being rejected. my experience is HVs are rarely rejected, but CVs frequently are (when they are your opening move). i am pretty sure that was by design, and it happens in all divisions. the rate of rejection is higher if the player is already considering another school, but its still non zero when the guy is considering nobody. i do think players who are "lower" than your school may accept with 100%, however.

OP, if you really want a guy in your division to consider you, and you definitely won't redshirt him, use a start to guarantee you get considered, then put in your HV (or whatever you think is the minumum to be considered), then pull the start the following cycle with a redshirt promise followed by a no redshirt promise (both in the same cycle). the net effect of the start -> redshirt -> no redshirt is 0, so it just costs you 30 bucks, and of course, you can't redshirt the guy (unless you go back and promise again, most likely, with some additional effort).

you can also use calls/letters/SVs if you really want the guy (don't want to risk an HV rejection), its not THAT expensive. or, you can just send 2 HVs if you think 1 is enough - in two single batches of 1 HV - so that its highly unlikely you will get hit on both.

I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on this one. I just believe that if a player is listed as being on your school's level that he should be open to whatever recruiting tools/options you wish to use.

Dropdowns/pulldowns, guys that start at a higher level and can see rejecting certain recruiting tools, sure, okay. But if a player is initially listed as being on your level, he should, in my opinion, be open to any and all of your recruiting options.

Sorry for having to ask again because I know this question has been asked to death, but what is the role of promised starts/minutes for ineligible players(D1)?  If I promise a start will I still get that recruiting action benefit even though I won't be able to honor the promise due to their ineligibility?

Basically I'm asking if I can sign an ineligible for the $110 special, without having to rescind the promise and perform any other action?

yes

Posted by clouseb on 9/9/2014 5:29:00 PM (view original):
Sorry for having to ask again because I know this question has been asked to death, but what is the role of promised starts/minutes for ineligible players(D1)?  If I promise a start will I still get that recruiting action benefit even though I won't be able to honor the promise due to their ineligibility?

Basically I'm asking if I can sign an ineligible for the $110 special, without having to rescind the promise and perform any other action?

Yes.  However, isn't there one last cycle of SAT results between signings and the season starting?  I thought I read somewhere either on the forums or a CC where a coach offered and inel a $110, signed him, and then after signings the kid became eligible and the coach was stuck having to start him.  

Posted by emy1013 on 9/9/2014 4:27:00 PM (view original):

Posted by gillispie1 on 9/9/2014 11:04:00 AM (view original):

Posted by emy1013 on 9/9/2014 6:06:00 AM (view original):
In theory, he shouldn't. But....I've had it happen before. It's not right, but it has happened, to me anyway.

i disagree with this... in theory, he should with some probability, the way i understand it. thats why the littler tools exist, so you can reduce the chance of your HVs and CVs being rejected. my experience is HVs are rarely rejected, but CVs frequently are (when they are your opening move). i am pretty sure that was by design, and it happens in all divisions. the rate of rejection is higher if the player is already considering another school, but its still non zero when the guy is considering nobody. i do think players who are "lower" than your school may accept with 100%, however.

OP, if you really want a guy in your division to consider you, and you definitely won't redshirt him, use a start to guarantee you get considered, then put in your HV (or whatever you think is the minumum to be considered), then pull the start the following cycle with a redshirt promise followed by a no redshirt promise (both in the same cycle). the net effect of the start -> redshirt -> no redshirt is 0, so it just costs you 30 bucks, and of course, you can't redshirt the guy (unless you go back and promise again, most likely, with some additional effort).

you can also use calls/letters/SVs if you really want the guy (don't want to risk an HV rejection), its not THAT expensive. or, you can just send 2 HVs if you think 1 is enough - in two single batches of 1 HV - so that its highly unlikely you will get hit on both.

I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on this one. I just believe that if a player is listed as being on your school's level that he should be open to whatever recruiting tools/options you wish to use.

Dropdowns/pulldowns, guys that start at a higher level and can see rejecting certain recruiting tools, sure, okay. But if a player is initially listed as being on your level, he should, in my opinion, be open to any and all of your recruiting options.

sorry, i thought you were talking about how this game was designed, not how you felt it should work in theory. i was talking about how i thought admin designed the game to work.

Posted by gillispie1 on 9/9/2014 9:33:00 PM (view original):

Posted by emy1013 on 9/9/2014 4:27:00 PM (view original):

Posted by gillispie1 on 9/9/2014 11:04:00 AM (view original):

Posted by emy1013 on 9/9/2014 6:06:00 AM (view original):
In theory, he shouldn't. But....I've had it happen before. It's not right, but it has happened, to me anyway.

i disagree with this... in theory, he should with some probability, the way i understand it. thats why the littler tools exist, so you can reduce the chance of your HVs and CVs being rejected. my experience is HVs are rarely rejected, but CVs frequently are (when they are your opening move). i am pretty sure that was by design, and it happens in all divisions. the rate of rejection is higher if the player is already considering another school, but its still non zero when the guy is considering nobody. i do think players who are "lower" than your school may accept with 100%, however.

OP, if you really want a guy in your division to consider you, and you definitely won't redshirt him, use a start to guarantee you get considered, then put in your HV (or whatever you think is the minumum to be considered), then pull the start the following cycle with a redshirt promise followed by a no redshirt promise (both in the same cycle). the net effect of the start -> redshirt -> no redshirt is 0, so it just costs you 30 bucks, and of course, you can't redshirt the guy (unless you go back and promise again, most likely, with some additional effort).

you can also use calls/letters/SVs if you really want the guy (don't want to risk an HV rejection), its not THAT expensive. or, you can just send 2 HVs if you think 1 is enough - in two single batches of 1 HV - so that its highly unlikely you will get hit on both.

I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on this one. I just believe that if a player is listed as being on your school's level that he should be open to whatever recruiting tools/options you wish to use.

Dropdowns/pulldowns, guys that start at a higher level and can see rejecting certain recruiting tools, sure, okay. But if a player is initially listed as being on your level, he should, in my opinion, be open to any and all of your recruiting options.

sorry, i thought you were talking about how this game was designed, not how you felt it should work in theory. i was talking about how i thought admin designed the game to work.

Huh, that's funny because my first two words of my initial post were "In theory".

yeah... in theory can mean a couple things though. in theory, with respect to the game, or in theory, with respect to your personal opinions... i took it as the former (as you were answering a question about how the game actually works). not a big deal, just a miscommunication... whenever i say "in theory ...", im talking about how the game should work, theoretically, although i may not have experimentally verified, or maybe im just exempting out some strange bugs. i always prefix my opinions on how the game should work differently. so, i just interpreted your comment through that lens, i don't take in theory to mean its how you think it should work, but your theory about how it actually works. anyway, like i said, just a miscommunication.

Understood, no worries.