Press effect on rebounding Topic

I was searching through the forums and couldn't find anything specifically about this.  Has anyone noticed an effect on your team's ability to rebound when playing press?  I switched from M2M and it seems a similar caliber of player gets fewer rebounds in press, but I haven't been playing it long enough to tell definitively.  
9/18/2014 10:14 AM
m2m is the best rebounding set, not by a huge margin but still...
9/18/2014 10:34 AM
I have found that I need to adjust my positioning down 2 in the press to get comparable rebounding performance to M2M. So if I'd normally set up at a 0 in M2M, I'd need to play -2 in press to get the same rebounding...
9/18/2014 12:14 PM
What is said above is correct - press does provide a slight negative effect on your rebounding.  However, I noted in your note that you are saying this by seeing similar players having fewer rebounds, are you doing that on a per minute basis, or just their overall average?  Even if press and m2m were equal in terms of rebounding, specific players would still see fewer rebounds, simply due to reduced minutes a player would see while playing press.
9/19/2014 10:08 AM
Posted by gillispie1 on 9/18/2014 10:34:00 AM (view original):
m2m is the best rebounding set, not by a huge margin but still...
Is it in order:

M2M
2-3
PRess
3-2?

9/19/2014 2:38 PM

I always thought the Zone D's were the worst rebounding D's.

9/19/2014 4:35 PM
Posted by artie40 on 9/19/2014 4:35:00 PM (view original):

I always thought the Zone D's were the worst rebounding D's.

yeah, i generally see it as man, press, zone, myself.
9/19/2014 7:36 PM
Posted by Trentonjoe on 9/19/2014 2:38:00 PM (view original):
Posted by gillispie1 on 9/18/2014 10:34:00 AM (view original):
m2m is the best rebounding set, not by a huge margin but still...
Is it in order:

M2M
2-3
PRess
3-2?

its kind of funny, in the sense that it sounds *** backwards, but i actually usually play a 3-2 when i need the rebounding, because i can afford to play a decent negative there (-2 or -3) even against normal, 3 point shooting teams. 3 point defense is really important so i end up playing a + with the 2-3 against those same teams. that said, im still pretty torn about the 2-3 and 3-2 and when to use them. i lean towards a 3-2 -2 as my base set, but 2-3 is clearly superior in terms of 2pt defense. when i've looked at it, the rebounding difference of the 2-3 and 3-2 on the same +/- was little to nothing, but i haven't identified if its actually little or actually nothing yet, but its clearly not as significant as say a 3 point swing on the +/- scale, i think anyway. thats why when i need the boards i'm more in the 3-2 -2 or -3 range, except against low 3 point shooting teams, when 2-3 is generally speaking the best set in the game. im still pretty rookie when it comes to zone though, so my opinions on zone should be read with caution.
9/19/2014 7:41 PM
For me, wether I use 3-2 or two three all depends on what my best sf candidate looks like. If they are more guard-like I'm liable to be in a three two, if they are more power forward like I tend to end up in a 2-3.
9/19/2014 8:12 PM
Posted by a_in_the_b on 9/19/2014 8:12:00 PM (view original):
For me, wether I use 3-2 or two three all depends on what my best sf candidate looks like. If they are more guard-like I'm liable to be in a three two, if they are more power forward like I tend to end up in a 2-3.
i tried that, and didn't see the correlation i was expecting. but i also am what i would consider like 25% of the way through the zone journey. i found that switching 2-3 and 3-2 for the opponent seemed to be more deterministic than playing for who was sf (swapping in guard and big type sfs in the same set, and then swapping 2-3 and 3-2 with a different sf - just to try to see what happened - and i couldn't really see anything happening. but i have to say - the guard and big both had killer ath/def, while the bigs in both seasons i really messed with it were quality speed bigs, like 60 - so i figured that was obfuscating the truth).

the thing i still can't wrap my head around is, well, its the whole thing from a defensive standpoint. in HDs zone, all 5 players are weighed in for the defense of every shot - with a formula per player that depends on the distance. i still can't wrap my head around how i'd even do that as a programmer, not to mention what it actually means for the game. i think high d1 is probably about the worst place to experiment with the 2-3 3-2 (which is the only place i've ever tried to play zone, and it was all recent). sf-y bigs and guards have too similar ath/spd/def at high d1 to really see the difference i guess, or at least, that is my theory. i thought about picking up a team to delve deeper but i confused myself in the planning phases and never made it out. its pretty crazy, it seems to me, i mean the last title i won was with zone, so i wouldn't say i was completely lost, but its just not intuitive to me at all. when i used a spread sheet to analyze some games, everything i expected was wrong. i mean like, literally... everything.. it was not a surprise anymore why i never liked zone when i first tried it ;) i think its got some real potential, but im not sure im the guy to figure it out. its pretty clear though that nobody has mastered it AND been willing to explain the details to the rest of us. definitely the least well understood of any offense or defense, in my book...
9/19/2014 8:19 PM
Well. Try it with a d3 or d2 team and you can definitely see the difference. My 2-3 teams, ideally, need to have superior speed at guard, a strong sf with at least two of the three main big man qualities with ball handling added in and ideally some passing too. The bigs can be slightly less dominant than they need to be with my 3-2 base.

With my 3-2 base I'm going more for two really dominant bigs as my concentration, and a small forward that has speed/def(then as much ath as possible), bh and pass, with scoring optional. (I know scoring isn't a defensive thing, but if I'm trying for a three two defense sf, let's just say having a scoring sf moves lower on my priority list).

Of course, I know allot of people don't tend to use double teams, and I tend to use them quite a bit in zone.
9/19/2014 8:43 PM
thats interesting. in the 3-2 you have your pg/sg/sf on 1 equation, so there i really look at the sf as needing decent ath/spd/def. but in the 2-3, its the pg/sg, the sf/pf, and a c, so i don't look at the sf as much as being a big. i figure sb has to be more important for the 5 than the 3/4. so i kind of figure a guard as a sf/pf hybrid is still mostly ath/def which usually my guards have (well, if not d1, then not as much - i totally agree in your d3/d2 situation that could be different). but offensively... that part i don't see. in a 3-2 im really hoping to get as much D as possible at the 4/5, which increases my offensive needs at the 3. plus, with a requirement on high ath/spd at the 3 (well, maybe thats just high d1 again) in the 3-2, its like, a waste of that ath/spd not to have offense! but i guess you can really do it many different ways :) i find your comments interesting, thanks for sharing!
9/19/2014 9:30 PM
Keep in mind that in d3/d2 you will often be able to get scoring from a high ath/speed sf even without really high caliber lp/per. I can often still get something in the range of 8-10 a game with a plus 50% fg% and some free throws. I say this fully admitting I am not your caliber of coach, by the way, so me giving you advice is probably just a touch silly.
9/19/2014 9:49 PM
Posted by acn24 on 9/19/2014 10:08:00 AM (view original):
What is said above is correct - press does provide a slight negative effect on your rebounding.  However, I noted in your note that you are saying this by seeing similar players having fewer rebounds, are you doing that on a per minute basis, or just their overall average?  Even if press and m2m were equal in terms of rebounding, specific players would still see fewer rebounds, simply due to reduced minutes a player would see while playing press.
acn that's a good point to consider, I was tracking rebounds on a per minute basis when I asked the question.  Also more generally I noticed when I switched to FCP that I went from out rebounding opponents about 70% of the time to getting out rebounded 90% of the time.
10/12/2014 9:46 AM
Press effect on rebounding Topic

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