Never athletic, never defensive oriented Topic

zorzii
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Would you recruit a SG, in DII, who will never have these two qualities, but will get to 100 PER, a great speed overall and solid BH skills? I am playing triangle, press.
1/16/2015 7:49 AM
the0nlyis
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how bad ath/def is he and how good spd is he.  He would never be able to start with bad def, but could be a good offensive bench weapon.
1/16/2015 8:57 AM
dan2044
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I wouldn't recruit a player like that.  I'm assuming we are talking about really bad ath/def.  Those players are always available.  And you may come back after a season and tell us how great his offensive numbers are.  But it will hurt your team overall. 
1/16/2015 9:08 AM
gillispie1
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Posted by zorzii on 1/16/2015 7:49:00 AM (view original):
Would you recruit a SG, in DII, who will never have these two qualities, but will get to 100 PER, a great speed overall and solid BH skills? I am playing triangle, press.
more specifics are needed, but basically, it can be worth it if you need the offense and the guy will be like, a 20 ppg scorer, and hes at least got some ath/def. if you are talking those 20 ath/def guys, then probably not.. maybe as a perennial 6th man? but even up around 40-50 of each, it could be worth it, you just have to make sure you take advantage of the fact that he is giving you a huge amount off offense, and turn that into better defense in your other positions as a result.
1/16/2015 9:10 AM
bbunch
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If I'm running press I'll do it, stick the guy on the bench. He'll foul out a lot but put up 15 to 20 points a game. You usually can't start a player like that, but as a bench contributor, it can work
1/16/2015 10:03 AM
jsajsa
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Like gillispie said, more specifics would be needed, but as a general rule I think the only role on the team for which it can be worthwhile to have bad ATH/DEF for and get away with it is an elite shooter.
1/16/2015 11:26 AM
tarvolon
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I had a guard at Colorado a few seasons back with 25 ATH, 80 SPD, 50 DEF, 20 LP, 95 PER, 75 BH, 65 P. He turned the ball over a lot playing PG but was a really good scorer. we made the Final Four his junior year with him as the 6th man. As a senior, he had 20+ PPG on a 2nd round NT team. He was basically the only offensive weapon that year
1/16/2015 11:28 AM
mikvitu
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http://whatifsports.com/hd/PlayerHistory/Ratings.aspx?tid=12190&pid=2643894
This guy played for me awhile back. I ran zone so I wanted to really test how weak of a defender I could take, and he came in with a good perimeter shot so he was able to contribute at least a little. Obviously a huge difference if you play man, if your guy looked like this on a man team it would probably hurt you a lot more but all in all this guy worked out for me.
I brought in a similar guy this year on my D1 team. 
http://whatifsports.com/hd/RecruitProfile/Ratings.aspx?rid=3255077
He'll finish with about 40 ath and ~50 defense in the triangle and zone. I have high hopes for this guy, he'll definitely be able to score.
1/16/2015 12:07 PM
dan2044
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Posted by mikvitu on 1/16/2015 12:07:00 PM (view original):
http://whatifsports.com/hd/PlayerHistory/Ratings.aspx?tid=12190&pid=2643894
This guy played for me awhile back. I ran zone so I wanted to really test how weak of a defender I could take, and he came in with a good perimeter shot so he was able to contribute at least a little. Obviously a huge difference if you play man, if your guy looked like this on a man team it would probably hurt you a lot more but all in all this guy worked out for me.
I brought in a similar guy this year on my D1 team. 
http://whatifsports.com/hd/RecruitProfile/Ratings.aspx?rid=3255077
He'll finish with about 40 ath and ~50 defense in the triangle and zone. I have high hopes for this guy, he'll definitely be able to score.
That first guy worked out in what way?  You made the NT once and got knocked out in the 1st round with him on the team.  
Nobody denies players like this can knock down 3's and score points.  But if it hurts your team it's not worth it.
1/16/2015 12:58 PM
dahsdebater
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If you manage the guy correctly, or at all, he can still be a positive.  If he's able to score close to a point a minute efficiently and plays 25 minutes, he might be contributing about 6 offensive points per game.  You'd need a very solid defender to be 2-3 defensive baskets a game better against an average offensive player.  I even think you can start guys with poor ATH/DEF and great scoring in man, you just have to be smart about it - they aren't going to win a 1-on-1 battle with a great scoring SG, so against a team with a great scorer at the 2 either move him to the 1 or 3 or bring him off the bench.  But against teams with single-digit scorers at the position, you can get away with starting your guy.  Especially if you can move him around and make it hard to predict where he'll be playing.
1/16/2015 2:07 PM
mikvitu
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Posted by dan2044 on 1/16/2015 12:58:00 PM (view original):
Posted by mikvitu on 1/16/2015 12:07:00 PM (view original):
http://whatifsports.com/hd/PlayerHistory/Ratings.aspx?tid=12190&pid=2643894
This guy played for me awhile back. I ran zone so I wanted to really test how weak of a defender I could take, and he came in with a good perimeter shot so he was able to contribute at least a little. Obviously a huge difference if you play man, if your guy looked like this on a man team it would probably hurt you a lot more but all in all this guy worked out for me.
I brought in a similar guy this year on my D1 team. 
http://whatifsports.com/hd/RecruitProfile/Ratings.aspx?rid=3255077
He'll finish with about 40 ath and ~50 defense in the triangle and zone. I have high hopes for this guy, he'll definitely be able to score.
That first guy worked out in what way?  You made the NT once and got knocked out in the 1st round with him on the team.  
Nobody denies players like this can knock down 3's and score points.  But if it hurts your team it's not worth it.
Yeah he was a defensive liability for sure but that NT bid I needed scoring help off the bench and he was a guy who could contribute right away and it helped me win some games that year. That was my first NT bid, I was a new coach learning the game and making it to the NT was important even if I did get knocked out. Yeah that guy isn't good, but he could score and thats what I needed for that NT bid. That year was my first graduating class and had 5 seniors, I needed to make it then no matter what to get the prestige bump so I could actually be good at the game in the future.
1/16/2015 2:47 PM
zorzii
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He Will be prolly 22 ath, 22 def, 80+ speed, 100 per, 80+ bh as a senior. Passing 50 ish
1/16/2015 3:21 PM
the0nlyis
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i dont even know if I would play him a lot in D3.  Yea he would be a great scorer, but he has such a low ath and such a low def he will be a giant negative especially in the press with fouls, and points given up.
1/16/2015 4:58 PM
zorzii
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THanks, I think I will skip him. I spent money on his scoring. I learned. I will try to find a replacement.
1/16/2015 6:25 PM
shoe3
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Granted it was D3, but this guy did ok by his senior year. www.whatifsports.com/hd/PlayerHistory/Ratings.aspx

I think it's a mistake to completely write-off any player who has elite potential on either side of the ball. Heck, Holley even managed a steal per game in zone defense. 

1/17/2015 12:57 AM (edited)
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