National Championship with no Perimeter Scoring Topic

ab90
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I've often wondered if it was possible to be a national championship contender while shooting no 3's and having no perimeter threat. Say other teams always packed the lane against you, would the increased free throws be enough to offset no perimeter scoring?

And less abstractly, does anybody have an actual example in support of our hypothesis here?
2/12/2015 1:05 PM
ab90
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Editor's note: fast break excluded.
2/12/2015 1:08 PM
bbunch
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I've seen it done by Christian Brothers in DII Gulf South before - Tianyi was the coaches name I believe. I don't know if they won a title, but they at least got to the title game using that strategy - it was guard heavy, but no 3's. 
2/12/2015 1:54 PM
brianxavier
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Posted by ab90 on 2/12/2015 1:08:00 PM (view original):
Editor's note: fast break excluded.

This qualifier makes it more difficult.  First school that came to mind was D3 - Dickinson coached by mfnmyers (he coaches Dickinson in just about all worlds I think).  But he runs fastbreak.  So I'm basically posting this just for the hell of it.  His teams are still fun to examine though.  Just about never shoots a 3 point shot. 

That said, I would think it would be possible with the other offenses - but more challenging.  He succeeds with lots of FT shots (FB helps this I am sure) and good defense (press).  A team could run uptempo pace and utilize the same player types and likely be successful. 

2/12/2015 2:16 PM (edited)
carl3298
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Posted by bbunch on 2/12/2015 1:54:00 PM (view original):
I've seen it done by Christian Brothers in DII Gulf South before - Tianyi was the coaches name I believe. I don't know if they won a title, but they at least got to the title game using that strategy - it was guard heavy, but no 3's. 
tianyi7886
looks like he just won NT title in Tark - not sure if it meets the criteria requested.

2/12/2015 2:23 PM
jsajsa
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Yes, I've done it. You just can't afford to run into any zone teams.
2/12/2015 3:58 PM
ab90
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Jsajsa, is that because they can -5 you without foul trouble? I've never run zone and am an extreme novice in the subject.
2/12/2015 4:07 PM
jsajsa
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Yes. If you have no shooting at all a 2-3 -5 is deadly.
2/12/2015 4:36 PM
gillispie1
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Posted by ab90 on 2/12/2015 1:05:00 PM (view original):
I've often wondered if it was possible to be a national championship contender while shooting no 3's and having no perimeter threat. Say other teams always packed the lane against you, would the increased free throws be enough to offset no perimeter scoring?

And less abstractly, does anybody have an actual example in support of our hypothesis here?
dwoeflin / swift managed to win a couple titles like this, while also dominating the elite GLV conference (d2 tark) at ridiculous levels. he ran a motion/press, i've long felt motion and fb are the best sets to run if you run a foul drawing based offense.
2/12/2015 7:40 PM
jeffdrayer
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We won 2 D1 NCs (Alabama) shooting 0 3s in the entire tourney, and faced -5s in every game but 3.  Maybe it wasn't the best strategy, but it did work.  We had good enough PER to shoot mid-range jumpers, but not high enough to hit 3s consistently enough to be worth it.  So even if we shot 7-10 3s per game, we would've been looking at -3 defenses that turned into -5s at the half.  Seemed like a much better strategy to try to get to the line as much as we could, since we shot very well there as a team.  Also started a center and PF with 70 PER, so a lot of our game was outside the paint, though not far enough out to hit 3s.  We did face a 2/3 zone in 2 games -- played both of those slow-down, since we didn't figure to get to the line too much anyway, and both games were squeakers.  So again, for all I know we won despite my coaching, not because of it.  But the answer is, it's definitely possible.  

This season we've turned it up -- 68 3s in 17 games, and we're currently sitting at #2.  I won't bore folks with it here, but if anyone's interested in a detailed explanation of why I think shooting 3s is a bad idea, feel free to sitemail.
2/12/2015 8:06 PM
bistiza
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mfnmyers seems to win consistently at his DIII Dickinson schools while showing extreme apathy toward the perimeter rating and shooting 3s.

In fact, his disregard for the vast majority of rating categories while still challenging for national titles makes me wonder sometimes if many of the rating categories have an incredibly small effect on the game compared with the few others that seem to have a great deal more effect.

2/14/2015 5:10 PM
ab90
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That's an FB/FCP team, isn't it? I think I've studied them before.
2/14/2015 8:22 PM
bistiza
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Yes, it is. He recruits specifically for two, maybe three attributes and his lack of ratings in other areas doesn't seem to be a detriment to the teams. It makes me think those ratings don't matter nearly as much as many people think they do.
2/15/2015 5:32 PM
National Championship with no Perimeter Scoring Topic
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