I dont see any explanation in this thread of how the alleged cheat would work

colonel asserts that it could give the DI team "an inside edge" to sign the guy

but how?  Lets assume the guy was cut - and didnt just quit the lower team when others was cut.

What was the cheat?  when was he cut - he could have been cut early or late.  Best argument for cheating would be that he was cut right before signing cycle so DI team "knew" he was out there and few others noticed.....

St Jo's is in Philly.  There are lots of schools around there.  Good chance that others notice - we dont know.

The kid shows as from Maine - some 200 miles from Philly.  So there would be plenty of DI schools that would be closer.

relevant facts - beyond the mere statement "it looks fishy" would be

1. Was he cut or did he quit?
2. if cut, when was he cut?
3. any other indications of connections, especially impermissible connections, between the two teams?

A fact that would be interesting as an indication whether this kind of cheat might work would be whether there was competition for this player in recruiting.  Thats after the fact of him being cut so it cant help prove whether cheating was the plan, but it would help folks know whether the cheat worked.

I can imagine this working in one of the isolated areas in HD - Hawaii or the dessert west - where a coach of a DII or DIII team could know that a DI team would have a clear best chance at a player being cut.  Philly and Maine is about the least credible locale.

I think an accusation of fishy should come with more than a claim that it looks "fishy" and an assertion that it gave an "inside edge".  I'm waiting for someone who thinks it was fishy to even suggest a scheme that connects the dots in a convincing way.  

Try making a good argument that it is cheating.

If you coach both teams, YOU are the ONLY one that knows that the guy is going to get cut, thus you allocate money/scholarship(s) to recruit him.

You cut the star D2 senior in the last possible cycle to do so (right before signings begin) when everyone else is signing the bulk of their recruits, you're sitting pretty waiting for a guy that you KNOW is coming that NO ONE ELSE KNOWS.  There's a whole heap of insider information.  Sure you may have to battle for him, but the guy that cut him SHOULD be in the best position to sign him, because he planned the best, because he KNEW it was happening.

That's how, and if you want me to show you, get WIS to sign off on it, and I will.

I guess if that one was fishy, this would be as well:

Reigning National Defensive Player of the Year (D-3) was just released from his team by a new coach. There were 6 seniors, and he was the only senior released. 4 of the other seniors are worthless anyways and do not compare to this player.

I wont jump to any conclusions, but some asked for more of these situations to be given.

http://www.whatifsports.com/hd/PlayerProfile/Ratings.aspx?tid=7811&pid=2918152

fd343ny - Well, we don't know whether the player was cut or if he left because the DIII coach in question hasn't graced us with his or her presence, nor has pinman answered the questions about those recruiting specifics. We can speculate all we want about the 'ifs' & 'thens' and still get nowhere...maybe the user was hoping on a mix of good timing and luck...or maybe it was an elaborate piece of performance art to get a thread like this started???

So, you're suggesting that all accusations or attention is unwarranted until all relevant information (which could possibly be withheld) is available? Because I'd say the burden of proof is on you to show how cutting a human recruited 1st team all-conference senior, while keeping two sh*ttier junior sim recruited guards, isn't suspicious or fishy behavior.

That's the whole point of this thread, to figure out what went down. If that player was in fact cut (and did not leave), it is very possible that it was done for the purpose of cheating.  >>> And in my opinion, if this is the case, then pinman foiled the users attempt to cheat rather than having played a role in it.

We are in substantial agreement - and what you wrote is the sort of possible scenario I think a claim of cheating needs.

IF the guy was cut at the last cycle before signings started (or close to that)

AND especially if the team that signed him was rather close to him - especially if he was within 70 miles of the new team

AND even more so if he's in a remote area where there are not plenty of competitors, 

Then, could be cheating. I'm with you on that theory.

 I note, no one talked about the timing of the cut until my post above.  I think that is a key indicator.  If he was cut early it looks much less suspicious than if the cut was late.  It doesnt prove cheating, but it would be more consistent with cheating.  It also could be consistent with someone wanting to get considered by some recuits before cutting a senior.

The cheating hypothesis goes away if the guy quit after others were cut.  and even if he was cut late it doesnt prove cheating but it does start to raise questions.

I very rarely sign 1 year players, not a tactic I pursue.  And I dont think even with a late cut that it would be a valuable cheating approach - clearly less valuable than colonel's misuse of FSS $.  But it is possible, I agree.

Posted by qb4usf on 4/26/2015 12:08:00 PM (view original):
I guess if that one was fishy, this would be as well:

Reigning National Defensive Player of the Year (D-3) was just released from his team by a new coach. There were 6 seniors, and he was the only senior released. 4 of the other seniors are worthless anyways and do not compare to this player.

I wont jump to any conclusions, but some asked for more of these situations to be given.

http://www.whatifsports.com/hd/PlayerProfile/Ratings.aspx?tid=7811&pid=2918152

That is weird, and definitely not the guy I would of chose to cut out of that bunch. However, I can pretty much guarantee that the only reason why he got Defensive Player of the Year is because he started on a pressing team that played a terrible schedule...which would account for his very inflated offensive & defensive stats.

Sorry Nacho, I meant to answer you with both of my previous posts and simply forgot.  I noticed the player at either the 11 AM or 2 PM cycle on signing day, don't remember exactly which.  I actually debated not recruiting him because of his poor ath, def and bh skills, all in the 40s.  The reason I did recruit him was that he was showing as a DI recruit and I thought I could get him cheap as I didn't think other DI schools would want him and I didn't think most DII school would try to pull him down.  I figured he was better than taking a walk-on though.  I used 40 letters and 40 calls with the scholarship, so he was over 200 miles or I would have used home visits (I think between 200 and 360).  He was one of 3 Srs I signed in an attempt to not have to play walk-ons or a very short bench while I have a redshirt and an ineligible since I am building more for the future and while still keeping recruiting money high for next year to continue the rebuild.  I have a very specific plan for how I am going to recruit and rebuild St. Joes that for obvious reason I'd rather not announce to the public, but if anybody wants to have a discussion on how to recruit to build a low-level DI zone team into a contender I'd be happy to have a conversation and look for some tips from somebody who has done it before.  I'd just rather go through sitemail. 

piman, was he already considering somebody else when you jumped on him or did you have to battle anybody? if so, do you remember who? That's what I was wondering, thanks yo.  --- edit: After re-reading your post, I'm assuming not, though it could of been the first cycle he was available.

If it were me, I'd worry about getting my team through the 2nd round of the NT before I worry about building a D1 team built from guys cut from D2 teams...

Posted by fd343ny on 4/26/2015 1:01:00 PM (view original):
We are in substantial agreement - and what you wrote is the sort of possible scenario I think a claim of cheating needs.

IF the guy was cut at the last cycle before signings started (or close to that)

AND especially if the team that signed him was rather close to him - especially if he was within 70 miles of the new team

AND even more so if he's in a remote area where there are not plenty of competitors, 

Then, could be cheating. I'm with you on that theory.

 I note, no one talked about the timing of the cut until my post above.  I think that is a key indicator.  If he was cut early it looks much less suspicious than if the cut was late.  It doesnt prove cheating, but it would be more consistent with cheating.  It also could be consistent with someone wanting to get considered by some recuits before cutting a senior.

The cheating hypothesis goes away if the guy quit after others were cut.  and even if he was cut late it doesnt prove cheating but it does start to raise questions.

I very rarely sign 1 year players, not a tactic I pursue.  And I dont think even with a late cut that it would be a valuable cheating approach - clearly less valuable than colonel's misuse of FSS $.  But it is possible, I agree.

I quite frequently cut a player that I am going to cut on the turn before signings .. IF I have money left for recruiting .. and IF the guy I want is still available and undecided, etc.

So, just for the record, I likely would not cut someone early unless I am VERY sure he has to be cut.  I am not either of the coaches in question, but just proposing why some would frequently cut right before signings.

Posted by ardthomp on 4/27/2015 2:21:00 PM (view original):
If it were me, I'd worry about getting my team through the 2nd round of the NT before I worry about building a D1 team built from guys cut from D2 teams...

Of course, taking a very crappy D1 player who is a 1-year player instead of a walkon player allows you to keep carry over, even if you never intend on playing him.  That is an excellent strategy to balance classes and keep carryover.  Even a D2 1-year player is much beter than a d1 walkon.  In fact, I hardly ever take 1-year players because of that. You can never tell when a good team will grab any 1-year they can get to keep carryover.

Posted by mikvitu on 4/25/2015 5:49:00 PM (view original):

Posted by colonels19 on 4/25/2015 5:04:00 PM (view original):

Posted by gillispie1 on 4/25/2015 2:42:00 PM (view original):

Posted by frymaster99 on 4/25/2015 2:05:00 PM (view original):
An owner admitting he would cheat if he thought he could get away with it should be the story now.

it would be, but its colonels, self-professed cheater, and resident forum troll.

self-professed cheater?  I haven't been busted for anything and I even vouched for you when whinenavy got your team removed...oh how soon ye forgets...

You said you would cheat if you though you could get away with it. Pretty close to professing that you cheat.

its not just that, he has openly admitted to using two teams to share FSS data, and just did not find it very helpful.

Posted by nachopuzzle on 4/26/2015 11:14:00 AM (view original):

Posted by fd343ny on 4/26/2015 10:38:00 AM (view original):
No evidence that the two names are the same person - is there any?  show us?

No evidence that this approach to cheating makes sense - do we know whether anyone competed for the senior?

If no one competed, why?

If people competed, how did the guy who signed him win?

Explain how the alleged cheating would have worked - how would the DI team have had a special ability to sign him.  Was he located very close to the new team - I have not checked.  Is the new team in the middle of no where?

I could imagine this working in say Hawaii or in Arizona or somewhere.

Want to claim cheating - explain how it would have worked and the unfair advantage.  be specific.  Dont just say it is fishy and it doesnt happen.  Explain the cheating - with specificity or be embarassed at admitting that YOU have cheated and that you attempted to tarnish a reputation without having thought it through,.

I've asked pinman twice if he had to battle any other coaches, and if so then who, but no answer was given. Also, scenarios about how and/or why this type of action could be advantageous have already been discussed in this thread, so I'm not gonna do it again.

Besides, if you can't think of any reason whatsoever off the top of your head why this would appear suspicious or how it might possibly benefit a coach looking to game the system...then either you're being disingenuous or you should look into getting a job at a big tobacco or oil "research institute" because they pay people A LOT of money to not connect the dots.

I'm fairly convinced that pinman isn't a party to collusion in this circumstance, but I'm still damn glad this was brought into the light rather than remaining buried in the sand.

you are glad that a coach's name was dragged through the mud, when colonels could have simply sitemailed piman with his concern, and resolved this non-issue privately? there is a right way and a wrong way to address these issues. it should go without saying, but because it doesn't, ill say it - this is the wrong way.

Posted by colonels19 on 4/26/2015 12:04:00 PM (view original):
If you coach both teams, YOU are the ONLY one that knows that the guy is going to get cut, thus you allocate money/scholarship(s) to recruit him.

You cut the star D2 senior in the last possible cycle to do so (right before signings begin) when everyone else is signing the bulk of their recruits, you're sitting pretty waiting for a guy that you KNOW is coming that NO ONE ELSE KNOWS.  There's a whole heap of insider information.  Sure you may have to battle for him, but the guy that cut him SHOULD be in the best position to sign him, because he planned the best, because he KNEW it was happening.

That's how, and if you want me to show you, get WIS to sign off on it, and I will.

After reading this, you're dumber than I thought....If you don't think there are a dozen dudes waiting at 8:01 PM EST in signing day, waiting to see which transfers pop up, you're wrong.....you really want to save your cash to get a recruit that is borderline D1 quality?

Get wis to sign off on it and I'll show u...and Jeff...not tired of trolling me yet eh?