Conferences: RL vs HD - Page 2 - Hoops Dynasty

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Yeah alblack56 : I see I saw your thread about this.

I am all about a realignment in D1. Not sure DII or DIII is going to happen but at least,they should put DII teams in DI if they moved up and DI teams in DII if they went down.

I would work on the base prestige too.

Wichita State should be B to B-, Boston College should drop to B- and a lot of others need to be reworked.

8/31/2015 7:44 AM

alblack56

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Menlo, Washington Adventist, and Fisk have moved from NCAA to NAIA.

There are a LOT of NAIA schools that have moved to NCAA DII in the past few years. You probably can't create space for any of them.

The DII West Virginia Conference disbanded. Some of it's members were absorbed into the new Great Midwest Conference.

8/31/2015 9:17 AM (edited)

the0nlyis

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Posted by zorzii on 8/31/2015 7:44:00 AM (view original):
Yeah alblack56 : I see I saw your thread about this.

I am all about a realignment in D1. Not sure DII or DIII is going to happen but at least,they should put DII teams in DI if they moved up and DI teams in DII if they went down.

I would work on the base prestige too.

Wichita State should be B to B-, Boston College should drop to B- and a lot of others need to be reworked.

First off if D1 realignment is done it means D2/D3 needs to be adjusted as many teams have moved up to D1, you can't just take a team from D2 and bring them to D1 and leave D2 the same.

For Wichita I think they have the on court success to justify a high prestige at the moment, but I do not currently think they have done enough to bring their baseline up that high. I believe baseline prestige was calculated from the past 10 years. And Wichita St does have a S16 in that time period under Marylands current coach and Marshall has them as an elite team, but one big thing is look at their recruiting they are still not signing top shelf player, yes they are signing pretty well but a B/B- baseline and probably a current B+/A- prestige should be bringing in better classes. Not the 62nd(2015), 74th(2013), 91(2012) and no commits for 2016. Looking at it, great recent success, elite coach, excellent post season success and still not big time recruiting the problem is baseline prestige. You are saying we put them as the same baseline as Gonzaga(who should be bumped up to a A-). I don't think they are their quite yet I think they can be on their way their if Marshall continues to do what he is doing, but at the moment no they haven't done it long enough to build a brand similar to what Gonzaga did. I'd be more fine putting them at a C+ maybe a B- depending on how the outlook of college basketball was here in an update

8/31/2015 10:07 AM (edited)

carl3298

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Another issue is the American Athletic Conference (AAC):

AAC - 12 members

UCF          -- placed in CUSA
Cincinnati -- placed in Big East
UConn    -- placed in Big East
East Carolina - placed in CUSA
Houston -- placed in CUSA
Memphis -- placed in CUSA
Navy     --- placed in Patriot
USF      --- placed in Sun Belt
SMU     --- placed in CUSA
Temple --- placed in A10
Tulane --- placed in CUSA
Tulsa    --- placed in CUSA

Personally, I'd vote for a whole new world. What's the downside from a business perspective? These world's don't cost then anything really. I realized it waters down the product but I think the up to date relevance outweighs that factor.

I'm not sure they could get it 100% right, but they could vastly improve it and focus on the biggest schools (which may involve some debate) and schools that are less popular could just be moved to wrong conferences. For example, how many customers does WIS have in Tulsa? Not many? Fine, move them to a lower conference to balance the numbers. This would be most difficult with the Big time conferences, but IMO better than nothing.

8/31/2015 9:53 AM

gillispie1

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well, moving people around on the fly is problematic - it could be done in a reasonable way though - adjusting schools as people leave, or if they are already open, that would be ideal. or, could even set a date things will change, and make the change then, giving people ample time (probably 1yr for 1/day worlds) to unwind their current situation. i think there are ways to go about it gracefully - i just don't think WIS will go about it those ways.

all in all, it seems pretty messy, lot of work, and WIS generally neglects the game pretty badly. i am not so much opposed to the change as i just don't think its worth the time. it would be different if they had people working on this game full time, and they were willing to put some effort in to smooth the transition (you'd have to assist with coach transfers and such if you made changes while people were currently at schools - dropping from d1 to d2 would be pretty unacceptable to a coach, for obvious reasons - or what if your school stops playing basketball - you are now a coach without a program?). plus, they have to redo scheduling to adjust for non-12 team conferences. im just not up for the painful transition we'd be in for, given the limited time they have, especially for something that is really just window dressing and has no impact on the game.

a similar issue is baseline prestige. WIS based baseline prestige on the last 10 seasons of real life (which is a ridiculous standard if you ask me - a programs long term prestige is not a 10yr deal - its why we have a good number of baseline prestiges that are nonsense). at this time, that 10 year window is completely out of the scope of the current 10yr window. if baseline prestige could float, based on HD seasons, this wouldn't be a problem - but it is a problem, if you are concerned about real life. i'd be for an update, just like the conferences, if and only if WIS would devote the significant time needed to making that transition graceful - and if it hadn't been years since they did anything meaningful anywhere else in the game.

last comment... seems updating this once would be retarded... have to do the same thing again. better to make it flexible by design, and thats a huge overhaul...

8/31/2015 9:55 AM

the0nlyis

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I think thats the biggest thing to overcome(assuming WIS would do anything in the first place) realistically you'd have to set a deadline for when re-alignment/baseline prestige was done say 6 months from now or something, this gives people ample time to figure things out, it will suck for some people, but its also currently unfair to some people you have to find out which way benefits more people as there is no way that will garner 100% agreement.

I think 10 years might be a semi-accurate window, yeh we see evidence of how prestige is coming from a long time ago such as teams like Georgetown or idk if anyone fits the bill a bit better(Indiana?) But any longer and its impossible to affect your floating baseline without investing too much time. I think with 10 years it gives you long enough to weed out the schools that have 1/2 good years(FGCU, George Mason) from those that actually have been built up(Gonzaga and those that can't be decided yet which group they fit into because it was all from one coach(VCU, Butler) I think if you are looking at a floating baseline there does need to be limits included(mainly downwards), however it shoud not be impossible and so tough to build up. I think there should be some slight caps going downward mainly based off conference prestige(unless HD was willing to factor in things like overall athletics or the AD's view towards athletics) And maybe even add in 25 season windows to help adress the differences from A to A+ as I don't think you can fully get that in 10 years, and I also think there should be a 4 year window to mainly affect current prestige but also have a tiny factor into baseline. I can write more but I really need to go get my day started. I am working on a college basketball project analyzing the top teams of the past 10 years, I'm only like 40% done with it, but when I finish I can convert some stuff and have it reflect HD and maybe look at how baseline prestige would affect it, but I wont finish it untl the weekend at the earliest its a lot of work(fun though)

8/31/2015 10:26 AM

rogelio

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"last comment... seems updating this once would be retarded... have to do the same thing again. better to make it flexible by design, and thats a huge overhaul..."

This. The assigned conferences in this game are not ideal, but they are actually more rational than the current situation in RL! RL is now creating alignments to broaden TV markets within each conference. That allows the conferences to create their own TV networks (which is why, when UT created the Longhorn network, UT doomed the Big 12 to dissolution). I suspect that the game is currently designed such that conference alignment must be identical in each world. If they could be different, then I'd like to see what would happen if users (within some parameters) could opt to realign as they wished every 10 seasons.

I would hope that the game designers prioritize (A) making adjustments to baseline prestige, (B) eliminating colleges that no longer exist, adding colleges that have been created or started playing, and moving schools between divisions to more closely match RL, and (C) making modest adjustments to conference alignments in the way gillespie mentioned (i.e. announce a date in the future after which the conferences will realign at rollover...6 months or 1 year out). Baseline prestige ought to be a moving average after about season 20 in every world. Just let it run as a 10 year moving average after that.

8/31/2015 10:38 AM

bagger288

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Okay the problem with this list is Whatifsports runs there seasons specifically at 26 games.... This makes it very easy on the engine, 10-non-conf and 16 conf where in conference you play your in division teams twice and your out of division teams once, very easily schedule creation. We cannot create 13+ conferences as its messes up the engine and easy schedule creation... I'm going to open a thread to better work on a real re-alignment that actually would work within the engine. I see a lot of these threads and a re-alignment like this is simply not possible with the way this game is built.

8/31/2015 5:29 PM

npb7768

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Most of real world Division-3 hoops has either 8, 9, or 10 teams per conference.

You could have one-division conferences in Division-3... this would provide a true "conference regular season" champion.

It could be:
You could have 9-team conferences... play your other 8 conference-mates twice (16 games), and maintain the 10 non-conf games. With 9 teams per conference, each team would still get the 2 off days.
Or, you could have 8-team conferences... play your conference mates twice (14 games), and expand non-conference to 12 games.
Or, you could have 10-team conferences... play your conference mates twice (18 games), and reduce non-conference to 8 games... or maintain 10 non-conf games so that the regular season expands to 28 games.

8/31/2015 5:42 PM

bagger288

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Posted by npb7768 on 8/31/2015 5:42:00 PM (view original):
Most of real world Division-3 hoops has either 8, 9, or 10 teams per conference.

You could have one-division conferences in Division-3... this would provide a true "conference regular season" champion.

It could be:
You could have 9-team conferences... play your other 8 conference-mates twice (16 games), and maintain the 10 non-conf games. With 9 teams per conference, each team would still get the 2 off days.
Or, you could have 8-team conferences... play your conference mates twice (14 games), and expand non-conference to 12 games.
Or, you could have 10-team conferences... play your conference mates twice (18 games), and reduce non-conference to 8 games... or maintain 10 non-conf games so that the regular season expands to 28 games.

This is solid thinking

8/31/2015 5:49 PM

clansing

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Just to be clear, my intention wasn't to try and realign conferences. This is just a list of conferences within HD and where schools have been placed.

8/31/2015 6:03 PM

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