Recruiting Update Topic

Posted by pkoopman on 9/12/2015 8:28:00 AM (view original):
Gotta love the "Who Moved My Cheese?" crowd.

It's going to be fine. The key is that it's going to be tested extensively to make sure it works as intended. The idea that "nothing was wrong" with recruiting is absurd. It's unrealistic, it's too condensed, and too high-stakes. The very idea that people are waking up twice in the middle of the night so they can get ahead of their sleeping competitors on certain cycles is completely asinine, and if you don't think that's driving anyone away from the game, you're myopic. Making prospect discovery a season-long process that coaches can tailor to their own schedule and preferences is FAR more player-friendly; and making it a strategic process that is more than being able to glean important color-coded data from a spreadsheet without stabbing yourself in the eyes with forks will improve gameplay for everyone who doesn't love working with excel.

Let's at least see how it plays in testing before we start threatening to jump off bridges.
Exactly
9/12/2015 10:57 AM
Posted by zorzii on 9/12/2015 8:14:00 AM (view original):
John : money for the NT needs to be fixed. It will truly help out competition. Other than that, I agree with you.
fair point, zorzii. I'd have no problem with that.
9/12/2015 11:48 AM
I like most of the proposed changes i like the in season scouting, i like that scouting and recruiting will have different budgets, i cant stand not having carryover and just looking at players that i cant scout over and over again for a month or 2. theres not much to do when the season starts i set my gameplan in about 2 minutes , i love the idea of scouting during the season .......
9/12/2015 12:07 PM
Scouting. But not recruiting during the season.
9/12/2015 7:16 PM
Posted by a_in_the_b on 9/12/2015 7:16:00 PM (view original):
Scouting. But not recruiting during the season.
If any proposed changes still required me to be signing on every three or four hours I think it would be problematic - and I think it would be for most users. I wouldn't want that burden throughout the season.  But if changes are implemented so that there wasn't a constant need to monitor and it becomes more "relaxed" I might not have a problem with it.  I really want to see what seble's plans are before I decide this one.
9/12/2015 7:32 PM
I thought the idea for scouting was that it'd be immediate. So it wouldn't work on cycles or anything right? So you could do it the first day of the season or the last without losing any ground to other teams.
9/12/2015 7:41 PM
Yeah ... I think that's right ... I was referring to recruiting.
9/12/2015 7:45 PM
I like the intended changes at D1. I didn't mind D2 nd D3 recruiting but it is frustrating to recruit against a super conference. When you have no shot at a guy because a 16-16 team from a super conference received a load of money for making the PIT.

In-season recruiting sounds tremendous and I can't wait to hear more details. Concern: That is will be every 3 hours during the season. If the in-season recruiting is on the same 24 hour cycle then I'm all in. 


9/12/2015 9:24 PM
Posted by possumfiend on 9/12/2015 7:45:00 PM (view original):
Yeah ... I think that's right ... I was referring to recruiting.
Totally with you on recruiting.


9/12/2015 9:48 PM
Problems at D1- baseline prestige. Get rid of it completely so people can actually build dynasties long term and coaches with great baselines who have played awful actuslly get penalized.

Tourney money- the 0-12 ACC team gets 50k extra recruiting money; the deleware state who made the final four gets an extra $5k.
Solution: penalize the crappy ACC teams while not penalizing the ones who earned all the money. Reward the deleware states of the world for building a good team. But don't reward them too much or they will never play anyone good and the sim conferences will be rewarded.
Proposal: conferences split 70% of the pot equally, and the other 30% percent goes to the team's that actually went far in the tourney, example- each nt game gets $5k. Georgia tech plays 5 tournament games, wake forest plays zero. Gt gets $25,000 x 70%/12 plus $25,000 x 30%.
The rich seem to get richer, which I know you're against... But the small conference e Delaware state (poor) also gets richer bringing them closer to the rest of the ACC (or big east in this case) and allows them to compete for recruits vs. Big conferences.
Further... The ones who advance far in the tourney tend to be the ones who lose a lot of players. To the draft or graduation... So they need more recruiting cash. And if you lower the total amounts each team gets as proposed, it will not punish team who plays well as much as you would if you just gave a flat fee to each team (socialism). That would kill this game. Don't punish success. Make it more attainable but you will kill it if you go to socialism.

In season recruiting:
I like the idea of scouting before the first round of recruiting greatly. I've always hated the fact that I can't know offense/ defense or don specific scouting trips before I have to decide if he's my guy.
Love this.
Finding diamonds in the rough is important in bridging the gap btw great teams and average team. Increase the number and potential of players in the middle of the recruiting world. Get better mid level players, hidden potential. Imperfect scouting... This way a b prestige could build a great team in four years. And the great team might have a miss every once in awhile.

Revise scouting trips, please. I do NOT want to spend money to learn for the fourth time in five trips that my center recruit doesn't have ball handling upside... And my pg can't block shots, ahhhhhh!!!! I know and don't care! If I'm spending money... Tell me something new!
Solution: either a) let me choose what areas I will scout (even if it's cheaper and just one area); 2) don't repeat any areas if I repeat a scouting trip ; finally) give me an expensive option for a complete scouting report...

More time before first recruiting cycle,,, 2 hrs is not enough as that recruiting cycle is so important. Give me 24 hours to put my effort in.

My fear: socialism.
In college basketball, kansas, Kentucky, duke, unc, ucla, etc. have built in advantages. They will always out recruit butler, even when they're good. Further, they will always kill deleware state recruiting. This should not change in this game or you are over- correcting and going to make this game awful. Don't penalize the good. Give mid range team's chances to be good easier by finding hidden gems ( I like the idea of scouting to find good players outiside of the top 100 ranked, that's real life); by increasing mid level recruit potentials (maybe not in athleticism as much as realistic areas of increase?); by expanding recruiting territories, particularly for higher level prestige.

Here's a realistic way to make the upper prestige levels more competitive against each other- in real college basketball, a+ prestige schools all compete nationally for recruits. Kentucky cheats, but they have a better chance at a Florida guy than Florida, even if Florida gies to 3 straight elite eights.
Proposal- have the costs for scouting trips/ campus visits, etc proportionate to your prestige... If you're super high a+, it's cheaper to go 1000 miles away than if you're lower a+ than if you're a-. Just do a sliding scale that no one knows.
How does this help even things out??? My a+ Georgia tech will actuslly have Texas A&M, kansas, Connecticut, etc. battle me for more players. I will take a chance and go against Syracuse on a recruit in Michigan , risking mich state jumping us both late. We would actually see battles for top recruits. This currently doesn't happen often because i don't wanna jump a conference mate for a stud recruit, and conference mates are the only ones I can afford to jump becuase they are within 360. Realistically, providence doesn't have a shot at a duke/ Kentucky battle. Good. They shouldn't. But if dukes battling UConn for a stud, prvidence should be able to jump a local guy late. Currently Duke and UConn don't battle. UNC, Kansas, and Duke dont battle. That's the problem at the top of d1. And the solution isn't socialism. The solution is- allow greed to actually cost someone something and let's have nation wide battles where the highest prestige school actually battles the 2nd highest even though they are 1000 miles apart. If cost is determined by a sliding scale of prestige and distance (distance doesn't cost as much for high prestige schools), Georgia will get some local recruits Georgia tech leaves behind, there will be a few more prospects at mid levels that can actually turn out to be studs, and Georgia actually had a chance to get better if tech gets people far away and battles ucla for recruits.
9/14/2015 11:38 PM
Problems at D1- baseline prestige. Get rid of it completely so people can actually build dynasties long term and coaches with great baselines who have played awful actuslly get penalized.

I disagree. I think they need to change prestige Baseline to make it more like it is today. Wichita State, Gonzaga, VCU, all these mid-majors need a raise in Baseline prestige. Team in the Big East need to take a hit. I'd like it to be a lot more like in real life.

Tourney money- the 0-12 ACC team gets 50k extra recruiting money; the deleware state who made the final four gets an extra $5k.

Agreed. It should be a lot more balanced. I don't mind the big six conférences getting more money, but not like it is now. I'd cut it to 50 % of what they earn now.





9/15/2015 7:59 AM
no proposal has ever made me happier to have left D1. The potential for this to get jacked up there is off the charts. 

d2 and d3 are already in better shape from a competitive balance standpoint, and will be harder to screw up, I think. 
9/15/2015 8:14 AM
Posted by zorzii on 9/15/2015 7:59:00 AM (view original):
Problems at D1- baseline prestige. Get rid of it completely so people can actually build dynasties long term and coaches with great baselines who have played awful actuslly get penalized.

I disagree. I think they need to change prestige Baseline to make it more like it is today. Wichita State, Gonzaga, VCU, all these mid-majors need a raise in Baseline prestige. Team in the Big East need to take a hit. I'd like it to be a lot more like in real life.

Tourney money- the 0-12 ACC team gets 50k extra recruiting money; the deleware state who made the final four gets an extra $5k.

Agreed. It should be a lot more balanced. I don't mind the big six conférences getting more money, but not like it is now. I'd cut it to 50 % of what they earn now.





So you think a team that consistently performs at the level of a modern day Butler should still have a low baseline? Not sure I understand your argument. If we raise Butler because they're good in real life... but the Butler WIS coach goes 2-24, it should stay high? And UNC's baseline A should stay there even though the current coach has gotten 8 wins in the last 3 years? 

Not sure I understand. 
When I say get rid of "baseline" I mean if you perform well, your prestige goes up- if you don''t it goes down. From where it is today. Thus allowing WIS Butler's, Gonzaga's, etc. to emerge long term in our simulated world, just like what happens in real life. 
9/15/2015 11:49 AM
Posted by zorzii on 9/15/2015 7:59:00 AM (view original):
Problems at D1- baseline prestige. Get rid of it completely so people can actually build dynasties long term and coaches with great baselines who have played awful actuslly get penalized.

I disagree. I think they need to change prestige Baseline to make it more like it is today. Wichita State, Gonzaga, VCU, all these mid-majors need a raise in Baseline prestige. Team in the Big East need to take a hit. I'd like it to be a lot more like in real life.

Tourney money- the 0-12 ACC team gets 50k extra recruiting money; the deleware state who made the final four gets an extra $5k.

Agreed. It should be a lot more balanced. I don't mind the big six conférences getting more money, but not like it is now. I'd cut it to 50 % of what they earn now.





Why would today's Big East need to take a hit...?   The real life "new" Big East has still been ranked in the Top-4 in RPI, recruiting, etc.

9/15/2015 11:55 AM
Posted by a_in_the_b on 9/12/2015 7:16:00 PM (view original):
Scouting. But not recruiting during the season.
Yeah, I think that is a feeling many people share. Here is what I feel:
1. Leave the recruiting cycle in one chunk, have it start at the same point and end at the same point. No stupid three hour thing, in my idea, when you put the stuff in, it comes back 15 minutes later (so you can correct any accidents).
2. The minute after the recruiting period is over, you receive the scouting base money and the extra money for the number of 4th year seniors you have (guys who no matter what will leave).
3. Scout to your hearts desire during the season. (I actually really like the idea where you have to "discover players" and when you scout them, you get more and more complex info)
4. The minute after the season rollover, your receive postseason money (I feel many people want to keep it) and money for transfers/early entries.
5. Do the actual recruiting.
6. Repeat.

I am a very new user so it is easy to keep an open mind about the update and I hope everyone else does too. I think Seble will not release it until most people are content with the changes.
5/23/2016 7:53 PM
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