One thing I think almost everyone would agree on with respect to potential changes that could be made to this game is that there are so many divergent opinions on what, if anything, is needed to make this game better. I still think one good thing that has come from this is that there has been some communique from seble. For me, I think it's a positive to know someone is out there and even if nothing else were to change I think it would be nice if this would spawn a pinned topic category of something like "Ask the Admin".  Something similar to a developer's chat that could be an ongoing running dialogue about issues and concerns and questions with the game that maybe admin could check in on once a week to address questions - right now my guess is it would be primarily focused on the issue at hand but my thought is that ultimately is could be a resource center for users to quickly turn to - a kind of ever evolving FAQ for HD.

I suggest this because I think one thing that has been missing with this new proposed roll out is that while there was the initial list of problems that were released by seble (I've posted it again at the end of my ramblings here) there appears to be a great deal of dispute in the community as to how much of this is truly a problem.  I absolutely believe that some of the items on this list are problems that detract from the game but it would be interesting and helpful to me to hear why admin posited these issues as problems. It would also be interesting to know why alternative means of fixing the problems that have been suggested in the community aren't or weren't considered.  Or, if they were considered, why they were dismissed or why it is believed they wouldn't work.

Specifically I think one thing I've seen as an ongoing solution to some of these issues raised would be dealing with recruit generation.  There seems to be a large segment of users who believe this would be a less intrusive "fix" to some of the issues that exist yet seble's response is that this wasn't being considered (I have my own ideas as to why I don't believe recruit generation wouldn't be a perfect solution to the issues raised but those are just largely uninformed opinions of my own speculation and would be mostly irrelevant to everyone else) I would hope he, and the development team, talked about this as a potential fix, and if they did, I think it would be interesting to hear why it appears to be completely off the table?  

Perhaps seble and admin (assuming there's more than one person here) won't have time to deal with this, but does anyone else out there think a pinned "Ask the Admin" topic category would be helpful for the forums?  Are there other questions people would like to see answered relating to the hows and whys that might help them better understand the impetus behind these changes? I guess I just think many people like to understand why these items are issues and why changes are being considered instead of feeling like changes are unnecessarily being forced upon them.

First off, here are the problems that I see with the current system:
  1. Elite schools have too much advantage, with the combination of prestige and extra recruiting money.
  2. There is not enough battling going on for the top recruits, most likely due to the belief that elite schools can't be beaten and the fear of losing that money.
  3. The status of your school related to a recruit can be confusing and hard to track due to vague messages.
  4. Some battles last until the end of recruiting, leaving the losing schools in a bad position.
  5. There are not enough schools willing and able to recruit outside of their region.
  6. Scouting players is rudimentary and frustrating.
  7. Player decisions come down mostly to money spent (assuming other factors are fairly equal), making it a glorified auction system. 
  8. Recruiting takes place at the beginning of the season, which is tough for new coaches, who haven't had a chance to learn the game.
  9. Due to the benefits of postseason money, there is way too much cooperation between teams in the same conference.
  10. SimAI teams are pretty terrible at recruiting, leaving many undesirable rosters.



9/12/2015 2:40 PM
#1 in real life elite schools have huge advantages - bigger than in HD, I think

#3 I think status of recruiting should be fuzzy - if it were disclosed mathematically it would be too easy

#7 It isnt money spent, it is effort made toward the recruit.  What should matter other than recruiting effort?  Well, school prestige is a factor, but I would not urge that it be more important.  When the effort is made could matter more.  One could add texture to recruiting - kid wants a school in cold or warm climate, strong academics, party school, prior history of recruiting from the high school or town....?

#8 if not recruit at the beginning, when recruit?  




9/12/2015 3:37 PM
yeah, it was interesting reading his list of problems...

I don't really agree with some of them - specifically items 3, 6, 8, 9….

I really strongly disagree with item #9.  Any coach worth a damn will battle regardless who it's against (conference or outside of conference).  I just don't see that at all.  I suppose it's out there in some conferences.  But it's certainly not due to post season cash - it's most likely due to not trying to offend a conference mate.  I think it's almost a social issue and result of the fact that we get to "know" these other coaches and it feels more friendly. 

Often what appear to be cooperation may just be issues 1 & 2 - advantage of the elites.

I would agree that one aspect of scouting is frustrating - the random responses from the scouting visit reports.

Finally, I don't think #8 - recruiting at the start of the season - isn't that big of a deal.  

I would love to see a poll regarding what the users would prioritize.  I am very happy that some thoughts and ideas were thrown out there.  I think seble will make a good decision in the end.
9/12/2015 3:41 PM
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I really strongly disagree with item #9. Any coach worth a damn will battle regardless who it's against (conference or outside of conference). I just don't see that at all. I suppose it's out there in some conferences. But it's certainly not due to post season cash - it's most likely due to not trying to offend a conference mate. I think it's almost a social issue and result of the fact that we get to "know" these other coaches and it feels more friendly.
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obviously you didn't witness the ACC in Allen grow to power. Coaches would be scolded by other coach(es) for battling a conf. team for a recruit.
Their local recruiting was almost draft-like, and armed with the knowledge that they didn't need to protect the current recruits from being stolen by a fellow conf coach, this allowed them to essentially work together as a group targeting the recruits of outside schools each season.

I had coaches within that conference tell me they had a real distaste for the way things were run, but would not leave the conf, fearing they certainly would become a target of the teams during recruiting.
9/12/2015 4:04 PM
I guess I meant at D2 and D3… I have fairly limited experience at D1.
9/12/2015 4:43 PM
I think the way it works is that A+ schools have a huge adv over every school whereas in real life those A-/B+ schools are still able to compete, NC State just had a huge signing with the #1 PG which would never happen in HD.

Also mid-majors are still at a huge adv you rarely see any non big 6 teams past the 2nd round.

Another thing I think you touched on was the vague messages, we shouldn't see messages from scouting trips or letters about how much he loves us when the scholarship message and fss is having us behind.
9/12/2015 5:09 PM
Posted by the0nlyis on 9/12/2015 5:09:00 PM (view original):
I think the way it works is that A+ schools have a huge adv over every school whereas in real life those A-/B+ schools are still able to compete, NC State just had a huge signing with the #1 PG which would never happen in HD.

Also mid-majors are still at a huge adv you rarely see any non big 6 teams past the 2nd round.

Another thing I think you touched on was the vague messages, we shouldn't see messages from scouting trips or letters about how much he loves us when the scholarship message and fss is having us behind.
I agree with this. I would add in response to fd's comments that I think he too is correct, in principle, that RL Big 6 and elites do have advantages.  They certainly have advantages in prestige and money but those advantages do not come with the added luxury of an absolutely precise and predicative rating system that allows them to easily identify where a guy will end up two, three and four years down the road.  HD doesn't have players who becomes busts and who just don't pan out which absolutely changes the dynamic of the advantages given to the elite teams. I think it's one thing to give prestige and $ advantages but when you add to that the predictive qualities of the recruits it creates a system that allows those elite teams to become way too dominate season in and season out.


9/12/2015 6:33 PM
I agree that busts are missing from the game and would be a good addition if there was a way to do so.
9/13/2015 7:04 AM
Posted by possumfiend on 9/12/2015 6:33:00 PM (view original):
Posted by the0nlyis on 9/12/2015 5:09:00 PM (view original):
I think the way it works is that A+ schools have a huge adv over every school whereas in real life those A-/B+ schools are still able to compete, NC State just had a huge signing with the #1 PG which would never happen in HD.

Also mid-majors are still at a huge adv you rarely see any non big 6 teams past the 2nd round.

Another thing I think you touched on was the vague messages, we shouldn't see messages from scouting trips or letters about how much he loves us when the scholarship message and fss is having us behind.
I agree with this. I would add in response to fd's comments that I think he too is correct, in principle, that RL Big 6 and elites do have advantages.  They certainly have advantages in prestige and money but those advantages do not come with the added luxury of an absolutely precise and predicative rating system that allows them to easily identify where a guy will end up two, three and four years down the road.  HD doesn't have players who becomes busts and who just don't pan out which absolutely changes the dynamic of the advantages given to the elite teams. I think it's one thing to give prestige and $ advantages but when you add to that the predictive qualities of the recruits it creates a system that allows those elite teams to become way too dominate season in and season out.


I think in Real Life elite schools cannot get away with ten kids being interested in a school that has two openings.  I think this is an area that really needs to be cleaned up.  The logic for interest at an elite should be "prestige (A+), but the recruit logic needs to tell him he will not be offered.  That is how NC State pulled the top PG in the Nation...He wanted to play not be "played". 

As I see it this would increase battles and get the elite recruits spread out.  As it stands now Big Six Schools won't even battle each other for the top guys, and some can get a recruit on the cheap, and then add to their bankroll the next season.





9/13/2015 8:10 AM
I know this is counter to the idea that elite schools already have a huge advantage but if we're trying to replicate real life then we should account for how often a school sends players to the draft. So having a lot of EEs should be appealing to those high level recruits who just want to make it pro. 
9/13/2015 9:01 AM
Posted by Benis on 9/13/2015 9:01:00 AM (view original):
I know this is counter to the idea that elite schools already have a huge advantage but if we're trying to replicate real life then we should account for how often a school sends players to the draft. So having a lot of EEs should be appealing to those high level recruits who just want to make it pro. 
In my opinion, if we gave elite schools even more of an advantage with top recruits that have draft potential, all you'd see is more top freshman and sophomores sitting the bench for a select handful of superschools. That's not realistic. Lots of elite recruits choose to go local or to a school that fits their style more or guarantee them more playing time at the sacrifice of program prestige.
9/13/2015 9:49 AM
Posted by wvufan76 on 9/13/2015 8:10:00 AM (view original):
Posted by possumfiend on 9/12/2015 6:33:00 PM (view original):
Posted by the0nlyis on 9/12/2015 5:09:00 PM (view original):
I think the way it works is that A+ schools have a huge adv over every school whereas in real life those A-/B+ schools are still able to compete, NC State just had a huge signing with the #1 PG which would never happen in HD.

Also mid-majors are still at a huge adv you rarely see any non big 6 teams past the 2nd round.

Another thing I think you touched on was the vague messages, we shouldn't see messages from scouting trips or letters about how much he loves us when the scholarship message and fss is having us behind.
I agree with this. I would add in response to fd's comments that I think he too is correct, in principle, that RL Big 6 and elites do have advantages.  They certainly have advantages in prestige and money but those advantages do not come with the added luxury of an absolutely precise and predicative rating system that allows them to easily identify where a guy will end up two, three and four years down the road.  HD doesn't have players who becomes busts and who just don't pan out which absolutely changes the dynamic of the advantages given to the elite teams. I think it's one thing to give prestige and $ advantages but when you add to that the predictive qualities of the recruits it creates a system that allows those elite teams to become way too dominate season in and season out.


I think in Real Life elite schools cannot get away with ten kids being interested in a school that has two openings.  I think this is an area that really needs to be cleaned up.  The logic for interest at an elite should be "prestige (A+), but the recruit logic needs to tell him he will not be offered.  That is how NC State pulled the top PG in the Nation...He wanted to play not be "played". 

As I see it this would increase battles and get the elite recruits spread out.  As it stands now Big Six Schools won't even battle each other for the top guys, and some can get a recruit on the cheap, and then add to their bankroll the next season.





NC state got the top pg because of AAU ties.  NC state can sign the top pg in hoops dynasty easier than in real life.  
9/13/2015 9:50 AM
^I knew this had to come from a UNC fan haha.

There are plenty of reasons DSJ chose State, not the least of which is that it is a program on the rise with all the pieces in place to continue on that upward trend. What does AAU ties even mean? Every big-time school has "AAU ties" to big-time recruits. State had more family and coach ties to John Wall than any school, but anyone with a decent source knew he was always a strong Kentucky lean. Why? Because recruits have minds of their own and so they're able to make what they believe to be the best choice for their future. Gottfried did a great job of getting in early on DSJ and selling him on a vision. 
9/13/2015 11:18 AM
Make star/playing time promises be much stronger, both in the recruiting value and the penalty for violation.
9/13/2015 11:55 AM
Posted by trail on 9/13/2015 11:18:00 AM (view original):
^I knew this had to come from a UNC fan haha.

There are plenty of reasons DSJ chose State, not the least of which is that it is a program on the rise with all the pieces in place to continue on that upward trend. What does AAU ties even mean? Every big-time school has "AAU ties" to big-time recruits. State had more family and coach ties to John Wall than any school, but anyone with a decent source knew he was always a strong Kentucky lean. Why? Because recruits have minds of their own and so they're able to make what they believe to be the best choice for their future. Gottfried did a great job of getting in early on DSJ and selling him on a vision. 
I mean adidas ties.  High-end recruiting is a very shady business.  
9/13/2015 12:36 PM
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