At D2 I wouldn't take someone who going to have his ATH in the 40's. I might make an exception for someone in the upper 50's if they are an amazing stud everywhere else, but even then it would be as a complimentary piece/role player. 

My logic is this : I am zone, so I hope for a 90 + block rating. And I will move him to center.

Maybe in a 2-3.....In  a vacuum, he s not an elite defender (40 ATH, 60 DEF, 90 BLK?), he's ok but not great.......best case scenario is if he gets to 90 LP he's like a 4th or 5th option on offense.......and he's an average rebounder at 40/100....he's average all over not the type of guy who helps win championships.....now with that being said, if you signed him for like $300 and used the other money to grab a true stud, I think you did a good job.

You have the same center in Ramos, I don't think even in zone he would be the type of guy I would target. Everyone is entitled to run their teams the way they want, just providing some feedback. 

Well, I went for guards and really got 4 solid guards. But I will pass on these type of forwards next time. I gambled. I knew he'd be coming off the bench to score basically, and was hoping his block in 2-3 would help out. There was not a lot of good forwards near campus.

You need role players to fill in as a senior 10-15 minutes a game at d2 I don't see it being an issue. As long as you don't expect too much more than that out of him.
Being an athlete in this game is way over valued compared to real life.

Posted by joco45215 on 10/2/2015 1:18:00 PM (view original):
You need role players to fill in as a senior 10-15 minutes a game at d2 I don't see it being an issue. As long as you don't expect too much more than that out of him.
Being an athlete in this game is way over valued compared to real life.

Being a great athlete in this game is way overvalued by people in the forums.  Sure ath-def is a decent way to have an okay team, but so is spd-per.  Ever since aejones' how to win at D2 and D3 thread, people think the ONLY way to win is ath-def.  It's simply not true.  I just took a low-major with pretty terrible ath-def, but a lot of spd and per, to an undefeated regular season (7-0 against top 50 RPI teams in non-con) and a NT game win (over a big 6 opponent).  We were outclassed on ath-def in every single competitive game, but we continually came out on top.  Why?  We ripped apart our opponents' press with good bh/p and shot a very high percentage from 3.  I guess that my point is don't overvalue ath--it's important, but not the only thing.  

If he is the best available player.  

Posted by joco45215 on 10/2/2015 1:18:00 PM (view original):
You need role players to fill in as a senior 10-15 minutes a game at d2 I don't see it being an issue. As long as you don't expect too much more than that out of him.
Being an athlete in this game is way over valued compared to real life.

sorry, but this is bad advice! you do need role players to fill in backup spots - these should be the young players that later go on to start.

recruiting a guy to be a backup as a senior is about the worst thing you can do. the only possible exception is a 6th man who will get near 20mpg and put up near 20ppg. or maybe the 6th man in a 6 man class, but generally, unless he fits that same profile i described first, its better to have him in the next class.

30 and low high and maybe I'd recruit him. But average, no, I don't ever recruit him especially in zone. If that turns red immediately then you have a guy that maxes out at 37, which I would only expect 35 since those last two points are so difficult to get.

I agree with Gil ( at least I think I do I did t read the post too closely) you don't need to recruit role player. Some guys don't quite turn out to be what you hope. Those guys turn into role players. A role player that doesn't quite work out urns into a complete bust.

There are SO many acceptable bigs out there that there isn't much need to recruit this guy. Again, especially in a zone. You really only need three bigs. The fourth big in a zone doesn't play very minutes.

Posted by gillispie1 on 10/2/2015 2:27:00 PM (view original):

Posted by joco45215 on 10/2/2015 1:18:00 PM (view original):
You need role players to fill in as a senior 10-15 minutes a game at d2 I don't see it being an issue. As long as you don't expect too much more than that out of him.
Being an athlete in this game is way over valued compared to real life.

sorry, but this is bad advice! you do need role players to fill in backup spots - these should be the young players that later go on to start.

recruiting a guy to be a backup as a senior is about the worst thing you can do. the only possible exception is a 6th man who will get near 20mpg and put up near 20ppg. or maybe the 6th man in a 6 man class, but generally, unless he fits that same profile i described first, its better to have him in the next class.

Well I guess thats why you are the better coach sir. 

Posted by tkimble on 10/2/2015 2:16:00 PM (view original):

Posted by joco45215 on 10/2/2015 1:18:00 PM (view original):
You need role players to fill in as a senior 10-15 minutes a game at d2 I don't see it being an issue. As long as you don't expect too much more than that out of him.
Being an athlete in this game is way over valued compared to real life.

Being a great athlete in this game is way overvalued by people in the forums.  Sure ath-def is a decent way to have an okay team, but so is spd-per.  Ever since aejones' how to win at D2 and D3 thread, people think the ONLY way to win is ath-def.  It's simply not true.  I just took a low-major with pretty terrible ath-def, but a lot of spd and per, to an undefeated regular season (7-0 against top 50 RPI teams in non-con) and a NT game win (over a big 6 opponent).  We were outclassed on ath-def in every single competitive game, but we continually came out on top.  Why?  We ripped apart our opponents' press with good bh/p and shot a very high percentage from 3.  I guess that my point is don't overvalue ath--it's important, but not the only thing.  

i agree with you for guards, guards can be ath/def oriented or be spd/per/bh/pass oriented, and still be good (as long as they have 2 clear strengths of the big 3 guard abilities (off/def/guard skills). but for bigs, ath is pretty damn huge. its critical for defense and offense, and a big part of rebounding - its pretty near impossible to have 2 clear ability strengths with really poor ath, as a big.

Gillespie : I know I stretched the pick. But the kid is all blue everywhere. Maybe I got carried away. He is black in athleticism, which means prolly 37 to 40, a bit more if I get Lucky. Say he gets to 90 reb., 90 lp, 90, sb and I think he will be more 95 lp, 95 sb at least, say he can pass the ball, don't you think he is a going to be a good scorer off the bench in a limited role, and not screw my defense that much?

Posted by zorzii on 10/2/2015 7:20:00 PM (view original):
Gillespie : I know I stretched the pick. But the kid is all blue everywhere. Maybe I got carried away. He is black in athleticism, which means prolly 37 to 40, a bit more if I get Lucky. Say he gets to 90 reb., 90 lp, 90, sb and I think he will be more 95 lp, 95 sb at least, say he can pass the ball, don't you think he is a going to be a good scorer off the bench in a limited role, and not screw my defense that much?

he won't screw you a lot, i'll give you that. here's the rub. when you get a great player, you have a list of reasons why you love him. when you get a good or even decent player, you usually are going to say something along the lines of, well, he needs some work but will grow into a quality starter. when your defense is, this guy won't destroy my team, you know you are picking the bottom of the barrel.

the reality is, a guy like that, here and there, won't kill you. but in the effort to compete for deep runs and such, you really need to stick to my rule of thumb - only sign players who have 2 clear strengths (ability wise - off/def/guard skills for guards, off/def/reb for bigs), with the exception that a guy who is a lead scorer doesn't need a 2nd clear strength, especially if hes solid on defense and guard skills / rebounding (depending if hes a big or not). this guy has 0 clear strengths. hes not going to destroy your program, but that's not a glowing review, you don't need guys who are great at everything, but you do need guys who are great or very good at 2 things. its better to take a walkon (unless you are taking several or are fb/press or whatever), and try again later, than it is to take a guy who won't screw you much. you want guys who will help you win, not guys who won't cause you to lose...

don't lose heart though. if you can meet the rule of thumb, signing guys who have 2 clear strengths, and run a fairly balanced lineup under that constraint, you are going to be a highly successful coach. perfection in meeting that rule of thumb is not required to be successful. but do try to stick to it as much as you can.