Importance of shot block rating Topic

So I was wondering how important shot blocking is. If you have a guy that isn't rated very high in defense but will pretty much top out upper 90s in block can that make up for his lower defensive rating? Here is an example of the type of player I am referencing...

https://www.whatifsports.com/hd/PlayerProfile/Ratings.aspx?tid=0&pid=3253268

In terms of blues/blacks/reds he is currently ATH, SPD, REB, DEF, BLK, LP, PER, BH, P, WE, ST, DUR, FT

In the end I project this guy to end up around 43 ATH, at least 39 in SPD, REB and BLK should end up in the upper 90s, and DEF probably at most 30. So wondering if that higher block can make up for the lower defensive rating? Thanks
1/28/2016 3:30 PM
My view says durability is the least important area, followed by block. I'd rather have ATH/ Def ALL DAY than block. I rarely even look at it when recruiting.
1/28/2016 5:33 PM
For a big I rate the BLK number right about in the middle of priorities. More than the perimeter skills but less than ATH, DEF, REB and LP.

Block shots depend on more than just the BLK rating but generally a center with a BLK rating in the 40-50 range may get a blocked shot every 30 minutes or so. A center with a BLK of 90+ may get about twice that many. Maybe one every 12-15 minutes. But these estimates can vary quite a bit depending on the players other ratings, the level of competition (DI vs. DIII), and of course the defensive set played.

In the overall picture that one extra block per 30 minutes isn't a huge factor as it could be offset by an extra turnover or missed rebound.

take a look at this guy as an example of a big in a zone that really has some below par other ratings
https://www.whatifsports.com/hd/PlayerProfile/Ratings.aspx?tid=0&pid=3153487
1/28/2016 6:36 PM (edited)
hm , i value sb a ton in my bigs mainly at D3, I think having those 95+ sb guys makes a huge difference at shutting down those great ath guys.  As well as theirs a bigger correlation I've noticed with those 30+ ath/spd/def 90+ reb/sb/lp it's a bit harder to get 90+ lp in those much higher ath/def guys.  just my 2 cents

I'd still take those 70+ ath 70+ reb guys over like 30 ath low speed 90+ reb/sb

But 40/40/40+ ath/spd/def with 90+ reb/sb/lp and I'd probably at D3 I'd go for him especially to play as a Center.

I had on my recent La Grange team my starting big men with 98 and 94 shotblocking and relatively weak ath/def and still managed to do a great job on the interior.

D1 and D2 I have different strategies.
1/28/2016 7:04 PM (edited)
nobody is talking about set, and set is all-important in shot blocking, possibly more than any other rating in the game. stewdog ignores sb, i did that for years - but he also presses, just like i did in all my early days. shot blocking is substantially less important in press than in man or zone. also, shot blocking is tightly correlated to rebounding, because both are tightly correlated to height. so, if you build great teams, with great reb, and ignore sb, you usually get pretty good sb anyway. this was more the case when i was a young coach, totally ignoring sb, before potential existed. also, per scoring was even more important then, making sb less important. but today, its still fairly true, press teams could ignore sb and not get hurt much. i wouldn't recommend it - you can always skip things and be really successful - but i am convinced that me getting away with totally ignoring sb back in the day, was not really a result of it being 100% useless.

on the other extreme, shot blocking is a core in zone. i have even contemplated sb out ranking defense for your center in the 2-3. shot blocking is hard to gauge - i used to just simply look at blocks, like oldwarriors math there, and concluded it wasn't that relevant. but shot blocking also impacts fg%, it alters shots, i think the impact of sb on fg defense is a very important part of the sb rating. it might be more important than the actual blocks, but roughly, i put the two on par.

anyway, in press, sb is way less important than the top cores, its more along the lines of passing in your bigs. i wouldn't say its right to ignore it, but you can definitely get away without it, its more of the kind of thing elite teams would like to have in their quest for championships, than something teams trying to make S16s and stuff should be focusing on. its probably less than a third as important as the top tier cores, more like a quarter, maybe.

in man, sb moves up decently, its still not half as important as the top tier of cores, but its probably getting close. i roughly value sb in man defense half way between sb in press and sb in zone, just because i haven't really gotten to study sb in man since i realized it was more important than i had realized in zone. 

in zone, sb actually becomes pretty darn important. i've seen strong correlations between sb and fg defense of my teams, and i think sb in your bigs is getting close to defense importance levels. i think it does matter if its a 2-3 or 3-2, and which player you are talking about. a center in a 2-3, i put sb roughly on par with defense, and wouldn't be surprised if it was slightly more important. a sf/pf in a 2-3, i put sb around half as important as defense, which may be selling it a little short. in the 3-2, i would probably put sb in the 75% ballpark compared to defense. the longer i played zone, the more closely i looked at things, the more i valued shot blocking. it also definitely depends on the other team, defense is critical in defending all kinds of shots, while sb i put roughly 0 value on, in defending per shots. in defending shots in the paint, in zone, its very possibly the most important rating. 

TL/DR: all in all, i would not consider myself a zone expert, but i am very confident that sb is way more important in zone than in press. it was a very substantial difference to the naked eye. how it exactly ranks compared to defense and other cores, that i am not that firm on, but i do definitely consider sb a core in my zone big men. the press side, its absolutely not a core, i have extremely little doubt about that. m2m falls somewhere in between press and zone.
1/28/2016 8:12 PM (edited)
My struggle right now, especially because this is my first time playing, is whether I want to go zone or man. Originally I was going to go man and then I decided to go zone because I was interested in some flexibility in who I could recruit. Now I am back to man as the two mentors I had spoken with seemed to push man or press a little more than zone. Plus it was pointed out that the best teams tend to run man or press and very few run zone. So at this point I am going man but zone still sits there tempting me. Thanks for all the responses.
1/28/2016 8:43 PM
Couple things about block: 1. The hi-hi block doesn't go up all that much (usually low 30's)...2. Like Billy said, most bigs have a "high enough" block score if they have solid cores...3. I treat BLK in zone  as important as ATH and DEF (or close to it) in the defensive equation for post players..4. I don't ignore block in man, but I don't emphasize it either..5. I am 100% sure that block is used in the "does the shot go in" event decision
1/28/2016 9:21 PM
Posted by rpolzin25 on 1/28/2016 3:30:00 PM (view original):
So I was wondering how important shot blocking is. If you have a guy that isn't rated very high in defense but will pretty much top out upper 90s in block can that make up for his lower defensive rating? Here is an example of the type of player I am referencing...

https://www.whatifsports.com/hd/PlayerProfile/Ratings.aspx?tid=0&pid=3253268

In terms of blues/blacks/reds he is currently ATH, SPD, REB, DEF, BLK, LP, PER, BH, P, WE, ST, DUR, FT

In the end I project this guy to end up around 43 ATH, at least 39 in SPD, REB and BLK should end up in the upper 90s, and DEF probably at most 30. So wondering if that higher block can make up for the lower defensive rating? Thanks
This guy is an good enough rebounder but not a solid defender....if I were to play against him I would target him to attack...he really isn't a NT type team player, he can rebound but not anything else....short answer, no the block won't overcome his low defense against NT type teams
1/28/2016 9:25 PM
Posted by rpolzin25 on 1/28/2016 8:43:00 PM (view original):
My struggle right now, especially because this is my first time playing, is whether I want to go zone or man. Originally I was going to go man and then I decided to go zone because I was interested in some flexibility in who I could recruit. Now I am back to man as the two mentors I had spoken with seemed to push man or press a little more than zone. Plus it was pointed out that the best teams tend to run man or press and very few run zone. So at this point I am going man but zone still sits there tempting me. Thanks for all the responses.
Sounds like you want to play zone so just go ahead and do it. It's your team. You can be successful with it.

Edit. I just realized your players already know man. If you did want to switch it'd def take awhile for it to happen and you will have to suffer through some growing pains. Just FYI
1/28/2016 9:28 PM (edited)
Posted by rpolzin25 on 1/28/2016 8:43:00 PM (view original):
My struggle right now, especially because this is my first time playing, is whether I want to go zone or man. Originally I was going to go man and then I decided to go zone because I was interested in some flexibility in who I could recruit. Now I am back to man as the two mentors I had spoken with seemed to push man or press a little more than zone. Plus it was pointed out that the best teams tend to run man or press and very few run zone. So at this point I am going man but zone still sits there tempting me. Thanks for all the responses.
Zone is the hardest to run (esp. the 2-3 IMO) because it's the least understood....I really like it though, it gives the high ath/def but low speed guys a home, while they are exploitable in man, and less valuable in press they are super valuable in zone
1/28/2016 9:31 PM
Having run all three defenses for many seasons, I feel like I can safely say that the Zone is very much inferior when compared to M2M or FCP.  I like to think that I'm a fair to average or so coach and have had some absolutely loaded Zone teams come up far short of what was expected of teams with that kind of talent.

Now don't get me wrong, I'm not saying you "can't" win it all with a Zone, just that it seems to me to be far easier to win one running either of the other two.

In D2 Crum, Devilowl coaches Mount Olive and runs a Zone and has had, by far, the most success of anyone that I can remember (although I think I remember either Mniven or Fussyd having quite a run of D2 titles while running Zone).  If you want a blueprint of what to look for in a Zone team, that's your team and that's your guy.  One of the MOST underrated coaches in the game today.
1/28/2016 10:50 PM
Posted by Benis on 1/28/2016 9:28:00 PM (view original):
Posted by rpolzin25 on 1/28/2016 8:43:00 PM (view original):
My struggle right now, especially because this is my first time playing, is whether I want to go zone or man. Originally I was going to go man and then I decided to go zone because I was interested in some flexibility in who I could recruit. Now I am back to man as the two mentors I had spoken with seemed to push man or press a little more than zone. Plus it was pointed out that the best teams tend to run man or press and very few run zone. So at this point I am going man but zone still sits there tempting me. Thanks for all the responses.
Sounds like you want to play zone so just go ahead and do it. It's your team. You can be successful with it.

Edit. I just realized your players already know man. If you did want to switch it'd def take awhile for it to happen and you will have to suffer through some growing pains. Just FYI
i pretty much agree. all sets in this game can be successful, so play what appeals to you. HOWEVER, as a new coach, the switching cost of changing from one set to another is quite high, and unless you play to stay at a program long term (a real life year or more), you should just go with what the team already knows. its a huge hit, it sets you back multiple seasons, making a switch.

the only thing i'd say about sets is, the 3 main offenses, motion flex and triangle, are pretty similar, and that is what the vast majority of coaches know and play. fastbreak is fairly different, and most coaches don't play it, and its not that well understood in general. a huge part of learning as a new coach, is watching what other guys are doing, and trying to emulate. because fastbreak is played so little, and it actually different than the 3 main offenses, its hard to look around and learn from others. so, new coaches should avoid fastbreak like the plague. actually, zone defense, you can say the same thing, to a lesser extent. fewer coaches play it, and its the least well understood defense, by the coaching community at large. i'd stick with man or press, and triangle motion or flex, as a new coach, just so you can learn the ropes. you can absolutely be very successful with any of the offenses or defenses.
1/29/2016 1:05 AM
Posted by emy1013 on 1/28/2016 10:50:00 PM (view original):
Having run all three defenses for many seasons, I feel like I can safely say that the Zone is very much inferior when compared to M2M or FCP.  I like to think that I'm a fair to average or so coach and have had some absolutely loaded Zone teams come up far short of what was expected of teams with that kind of talent.

Now don't get me wrong, I'm not saying you "can't" win it all with a Zone, just that it seems to me to be far easier to win one running either of the other two.

In D2 Crum, Devilowl coaches Mount Olive and runs a Zone and has had, by far, the most success of anyone that I can remember (although I think I remember either Mniven or Fussyd having quite a run of D2 titles while running Zone).  If you want a blueprint of what to look for in a Zone team, that's your team and that's your guy.  One of the MOST underrated coaches in the game today.
i think fussyd had either like a 3peat or like 4 titles in 7 seasons with zone, or something. i am pretty sure that is what you are thinking of.

i've played a good bit of zone in the last couple years myself, and as a championship set, its definitely the hardest set to win titles with. i do think it is a solid defense for other levels of play, especially mid majors in d1, and i've found that its pretty good in d1 even for like, pulling 1 seeds and stuff. but i do think its definitely harder to win a title with zone than other defenses. i actually think it makes total sense why.

we all know, a super deep, super loaded team, is going to be best playing press. why? because press requires depth - you get penalized in a huge way, if you don't have depth. if you do have depth, press utilizes it better than other sets, so it basically has to be the best, when you have a super deep talented team, which the best title teams often have. zone is the opposite, it can thrive with less players, with just a couple stars carrying a huge portion of the load. so, it really can help you do more with less - but on the flip side, you do less with more. if you have 12 great players, which some top teams will have, zone is going to be the worst defense. it sort of has to be that way. so, i agree with emy here.
1/29/2016 1:10 AM
Posted by gillispie1 on 1/29/2016 1:05:00 AM (view original):
Posted by Benis on 1/28/2016 9:28:00 PM (view original):
Posted by rpolzin25 on 1/28/2016 8:43:00 PM (view original):
My struggle right now, especially because this is my first time playing, is whether I want to go zone or man. Originally I was going to go man and then I decided to go zone because I was interested in some flexibility in who I could recruit. Now I am back to man as the two mentors I had spoken with seemed to push man or press a little more than zone. Plus it was pointed out that the best teams tend to run man or press and very few run zone. So at this point I am going man but zone still sits there tempting me. Thanks for all the responses.
Sounds like you want to play zone so just go ahead and do it. It's your team. You can be successful with it.

Edit. I just realized your players already know man. If you did want to switch it'd def take awhile for it to happen and you will have to suffer through some growing pains. Just FYI
i pretty much agree. all sets in this game can be successful, so play what appeals to you. HOWEVER, as a new coach, the switching cost of changing from one set to another is quite high, and unless you play to stay at a program long term (a real life year or more), you should just go with what the team already knows. its a huge hit, it sets you back multiple seasons, making a switch.

the only thing i'd say about sets is, the 3 main offenses, motion flex and triangle, are pretty similar, and that is what the vast majority of coaches know and play. fastbreak is fairly different, and most coaches don't play it, and its not that well understood in general. a huge part of learning as a new coach, is watching what other guys are doing, and trying to emulate. because fastbreak is played so little, and it actually different than the 3 main offenses, its hard to look around and learn from others. so, new coaches should avoid fastbreak like the plague. actually, zone defense, you can say the same thing, to a lesser extent. fewer coaches play it, and its the least well understood defense, by the coaching community at large. i'd stick with man or press, and triangle motion or flex, as a new coach, just so you can learn the ropes. you can absolutely be very successful with any of the offenses or defenses.
"It sets you back multiple seasons, making a switch"

You sound like Yoda, especially if you add does so it goes like "it sets you back multiple seasons, making a switch does"
1/29/2016 1:55 AM
Importance of shot block rating Topic

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