one thing that consistently surprises me is how people manage their considering lists in d1... in the sense that it could be done better. i figured i'd share this tip, i think many could find it useful. really not exclusive to d1, but most applicable to d1.

its hard, to know when to push, when to fold. this isn't about making that decision. its about what to do once you've made that decision to fold. i see so many guys back down, and just sit there, in the battle, for absolutely no reason. often, these battles don't resolve - the amount of effort it takes to knock another guy off can be prohibitively expensive, especially when you don't have the luxury of being the dominant a+ team in your area.

now - in some cases - you are battling a key rival and you want to make them pay, so you want to stay on the list. but generally (north of 90% for me), being on the losing end of a battle is a pretty bad place to be, when someone comes snooping around your players, to see who is on your list. why not pull your own name off the list? i like to think its courteous, but its not really about that - its about self interest. i want to look strong, when anyone comes looking - i've learned that in this game, that is generally more important than actually BEING strong.

ok, so bottom line. you are anyone in any division ever, you get in a battle, and realize, for whatever reason, you don't want to be in that battle. you have two weapons in your bag. the first is the obvious - redshirt, pull scholarship. this works much of the time - especially in high d1. yet, so few people do it! even the best A+ programs in d1 can't redshirt 4 and 5 star players, and lower programs usually can't redshirt the guys they are hoping for, which are often the guys you end up wishing you hadn't went for. redshirt, pull that scholarship - its TEN DOLLARS. even with 30k in, winning, this will often take you off completely. option 2, is a cycle of scholarship offers and pulls. its a pretty substantial negative. i don't use this often, but i've used it a few times, when i really wanted a guy off my list. 2-3 scholarship offers/pulls will cancel out a few home visits, maybe more, and typically will pull you out of the battle. note, this cycle can be done repeatedly in the same recruiting cycle.

pro tip - there's nothing worse than being the big school, and having some inexperienced (or experienced but not yet properly educated in such matters) team who can't win a head to head - no, cant even come close - push you on a player anyway. its hard to back down, knowing you can crush that guy easily. but why risk your other players? you spend 40k beating down some rogue school, and some other big school takes one of your other players. the other guy usually gets totally wrecked, but how does that help you? just redshirt, let him do his thing, and come back and crush him later.

Posted by Trentonjoe on 2/1/2016 6:44:00 PM (view original):
Yeah, its a real shame when you  have to spend to get the guy you want.....

dont take me wrong... i have no problem with a real battle. when you have **** like a guy a prestige grade lower fight you at distance... you want to murder someone. everyone who has played d1 long enough even at an intermediate level can relate to that.

Posted by gillispie1 on 2/1/2016 6:52:00 PM (view original):

Posted by Trentonjoe on 2/1/2016 6:44:00 PM (view original):
Yeah, its a real shame when you  have to spend to get the guy you want.....

dont take me wrong... i have no problem with a real battle. when you have **** like a guy a prestige grade lower fight you at distance... you want to murder someone. everyone who has played d1 long enough even at an intermediate level can relate to that.

For a lower prestige school at a distance, this is actually a viable strategy.  Sure, the A+ school may have distance, prestige, and money on you.  But does the A+ school actually want to spend the money?  Maybe not, and that's how you can pull in some half decent recruits off the bottom of the big boys' lists.  

ok, fine, ill concede that (im assuming you mean the lower school HAS distance, that's not what i was suggestion, i meant at distance advantage to the big school). it can work sometimes and all that stuff. but on a premier player who is clearly a priority, that crap can drive you mad. in the other position, i'd never battle a guy who had me crushed unless he had a ton of battles going on, its just crazy bad for you to do that. it almost always ends in devastation for the school who tries it. im not talking about the times when its sneaky and makes sense, i've done my fair of crazy **** like that, thats not what i mean. i'm really not trying to comment on that kind of strategy at all here, just saying - dropping off a list isnt only a good tactic as the loser, sometimes, its a good tactic as the winner. thats all.

Posted by dahsdebater on 2/1/2016 9:50:00 PM (view original):

Posted by gillispie1 on 2/1/2016 9:08:00 PM (view original):
ok, fine, ill concede that (im assuming you mean the lower school HAS distance, that's not what i was suggestion, i meant at distance advantage to the big school). it can work sometimes and all that stuff. but on a premier player who is clearly a priority, that crap can drive you mad. in the other position, i'd never battle a guy who had me crushed unless he had a ton of battles going on, its just crazy bad for you to do that. it almost always ends in devastation for the school who tries it. im not talking about the times when its sneaky and makes sense, i've done my fair of crazy **** like that, thats not what i mean. i'm really not trying to comment on that kind of strategy at all here, just saying - dropping off a list isnt only a good tactic as the loser, sometimes, its a good tactic as the winner. thats all.

It's pretty risky as a winner.  If something comes up, and you miss the crucial cycle or 2 right before signings, you're massively compounding your pain by getting yourself knocked off the guy's list.

In that case the minnow gets paid off big for putting the pressure on, unless there's a third school involved.

if you miss before signings, then yes very risky, i usually arrange someone to act for me if that will happen, but im sure not everyone has the flexibility i have where its pretty unlikely i'd ever miss without knowing it ahead of time.

it is stupid that so much of d1 comes down to hitting the first 2 cycles and the 2 cycles before/after signings, not much we can do about that though :(

Posted by mikvitu on 2/1/2016 9:39:00 PM (view original):
I think having a player who you're about to sign sniped by higher prestige schools feels a lot worse than having to spend some extra money as a big 6 school because some C prestige tries to challenge you, but I guess when you're at the big schools there has to be something to complain about. 

that was not at all my point. my point was just about controlling your list which is super applicable for d1 schools of all sizes. i would just delete that part now if it wouldn't make the following comments confusing. saying "theres nothing worse than" was just a phrase, a lead in, and not accurate - i take that back - i concede your point here.

i was just trying to make a post about how important managing your lists is and a couple ways you can do that. its a huge part of d1, i see countless examples of people completely failing to manage their list, to manage the perception of their school, its extremely wide spread, especially at the B-ish range of recruiting. but also everywhere else in d1. i really don't think many folks realize how important it is, or consider the flip side of knocking people off - which is taking yourself off - and that really limits their options. 

Posted by jack_package on 2/1/2016 11:19:00 PM (view original):
Slightly off topic, but what cycle do the first round of battles end?  For example, signings started at 8 PM in Tark tonight, when will the majority of the battles be decided?

11am tomorrow the threshold for winning a battle drops significantly. then, at 8am the following day, it drops significantly again. usually, only very close battles are left after 11am or 2pm tomorrow. the reason i say 11am or 2pm is a lot of folks drop their last round at 8-11 and it delays the decision 1 cycle. 

Posted by mikvitu on 2/1/2016 10:36:00 PM (view original):

Kinda dumb to argue with someone who has a dynasty going at Kansas, but I don't ever 'manage' my list because I'm a conservative recruiter and want lots of backup options. So near the end of every recruiting cycle I have a ton of considerings, most of them players mid majors and up wouldn't want but guys that I want to keep away from a D prestige school just in case. There's probably about 100 reasons I should be more aggressive with recruiting, but I definitely feel like there can be a reason, or positive to having a big considering list. 

backup options is different than having losing battles on your resume, which is mostly what i am getting at. backup options can work, although people will penalize you for them more than is reasonable. also, some folks will be able to pick through and determine your true backups but some won't, and will fight you on the guys you want thinking you don't really want them. unrelated, given your tenure there, yes, you definitely need to be more aggressive with recruiting. falling back to a walkon is fine, reserving a bunch of backup options is probably the wrong mindset for a mid major. you've done well, don't take me wrong - but at some point you need to make a push to get over that hump.

also, judge advice on merit, i wouldn't get too hung up on who it comes from. when i started, my mantra was consider every piece of information but take none for granted, to be as open minded as possible but also very skeptical. one of the best pieces of advice i ever got on the forums, i got from one of the "forum idiots" of the day (although he wasn't really anymore, at the time). some of the worst advice i ever chose to ignore, came from the games' greatest coaches. so no, not dumb to argue with me :) far smarter than taking something i say without questioning it.