Better option at PG (DII) Topic

John Cooper 

Russell Jenkins

Personally, I'm leaning towards Jenkins but he is so slow.  


2/8/2016 2:16 PM
Cooper is better. I would start him over Jenkins if you have a SG. Jenkins would be my backup. Against press, I would pick Cooper everytime
2/8/2016 2:53 PM
Jenkins at the 1, Cooper at the 2.
2/8/2016 3:26 PM
I like Cooper more at the 1, if you don't need him to score.......The 10 points in spedd and 15 in BH are more valuable than the 9 points in passing in my book...The higher IQ helps as well
2/8/2016 4:22 PM
Cooper at the 1, Jenkins at the 2 but set it so that Jenkins is your first option at PG when Cooper is out based on the rest of your team.
2/8/2016 5:03 PM
I do that a lot as well. My sg is often my backup pg.
2/8/2016 5:24 PM
Posted by mraston on 2/8/2016 5:03:00 PM (view original):
Cooper at the 1, Jenkins at the 2 but set it so that Jenkins is your first option at PG when Cooper is out based on the rest of your team.
I've never done that before, I think I might give it a try.
2/8/2016 5:28 PM
Jenkins, passing trumps the negligible speed gap in this instance
2/9/2016 12:10 PM
This is more about ballhandling than anything else.
2/9/2016 12:55 PM
Cooper is clearly the better player, no question. The only thing Jenkins has on him is 9 pts in passing and even then, he is no Stockton with that 68 pass rating. Cooper beats him in Ath, Spd, Def, Pe, BH,  and Stam.
2/9/2016 1:23 PM
Passing is far more important than BH at the 1.
2/9/2016 1:23 PM
Posted by dahsdebater on 2/9/2016 1:23:00 PM (view original):
Passing is far more important than BH at the 1.
For every set other than FB, I rank PG skills like this:   PASS, SPEED, BH.
2/9/2016 1:32 PM
Here's a simple thought experiment.  Take a look at my PG, Kevin Bassler.  He's at ~70 BH and ~70 Pass.  Through 8 games, he's averaging 1.8 TOs per game (24.1 min) against the #1 rated SOS.  Last year as the starting PG against the 8th-rated SOS, with the same 69 BH and an average of ~65 Pass, he averaged 1.7 TOs in 22.1 minutes.  So that number of ~1.8 TO/game has been pretty reliable and well-established at this point.  He takes a little over 4 shots per game (actually almost 5 this year).

So here's the easy part for most coaches.  Let's say you could add or subtract 10 points of BH from Bassler.  How much do you think it would impact his turnovers?  My guess is that if you added 10 points of BH, he'd improve his turnover rate by no more than .2 to .3 TO/game.  If you removed 10 points of BH, it might be a change of .3-.4, which could be mitigated back to the .2-.3 range by having him shoot a little less frequently.  Those are very liberal estimates.  On a reasonably efficient offensive team, you might stand to gain or lose approximately .2 points per game of offense from that 10-point BH change.

Now the hard part.  If you added or subtracted 10 points of passing from Bassler, how much would that impact the team?  Passing almost certainly has less impact on turnovers than BH, so let's just totally ignore that.  The truly important factor is the impact of passing on teammates' shooting percentage.  My best guess is that 10 points of passing in either direction would change the offensive expectation by something in the neighborhood of one made basket per game (I don't want to be more specific than that, but it's close enough, within 100% error).  That's more than 2 points per game.  An order of magnitude more important than 10 points of BH.  If anybody has done some investigation into the impact of passing on FG% and thinks I have more than 100% error (IE impact less than 0.5 baskets/game or greater than 2), feel free to refute this.  But otherwise, the point is valid.  It's basically an order of magnitude difference in importance.
2/9/2016 4:43 PM
Dah : I'd like to get that real info from WIS. But you certainly made your point and I am listening. I was thinking BH as a way of preventing press to kill your team.

Thanks for your post.
2/9/2016 9:42 PM
I did mess it up a little bit.  I was thinking in terms of 2-point made basket equivalents for a while, so the BH impact of 10 points should be double, or about .3-.4 PPG.  That's on a very efficient team, though.  And still far below the passing impact.

Nobody is going to be able to give you exact numbers on these things, because all they do is go into complex calculations to compute probabilities.  The reality is that the exact impact of 10 points in any rating on any result of that rating depends on the initial number, the players other ratings, and in many cases position and teammates' ratings.  WIS has also, to the best of my knowledge, consistently refused to give anybody any information beyond "passing now impacts the FG percentages of teammates."  I'm not at all sure if my numerical estimates are accurate at the high D1 level, but from D3 through low-majors they should be reasonable.
2/9/2016 9:49 PM
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