Posted by dacj501 on 2/28/2016 10:20:00 AM (view original):
"term limits" might work for folks who want them, but only because half the current coaches will quit and there should be lots of open jobs then.

I'm gone if someone artificially takes my A+ job, that I spent 7 IRL years trying to learn how to land, away from me.

**** That.

I didn't edit a thing. I owned it. My stance is still right there, on page 3, and again here. I just softened my rhetoric in the face of reasoned discourse...but I also owned it - please don't make it seem I've obfuscated anything, even if that's not your intent.

Posted by npb7768 on 2/28/2016 1:04:00 PM (view original):
He edited his f-bomb comments. I'm not offended by them, but i get aggravated when threads devolve into repeated posts attempting to intimidate or figuratively shout down other posters. And his initial response to term limits wasn't a reasined response. It was a quick rant about effing leaving and never coming back. You're actually enabling dacj by trying to soften his stance. It's the same thing that happened in seble's recruiting threads. He or a couple of other posters go on kindergarten rants.

Anyway,
Here's my serious proposal about what to do it the short term, like today, this minute: ( i posted this earlier in the thread)

Every one of us should go to our respective favorite schools' real life message forums and start a thread about HD. Nothing tok long, just a concise description. These hundreds of forums have hundreds of members. Many love discussing roster management, strategies, everything that we also enjoy. If hundreds of fans of each school learn about the game and some go and browse HD because of it, then hopefully a handful from each school will test out this game.

The thread could be presented as a cool game and you're looking for 12 Kentucky fans to fill up a conference and compete.

Something like this doesn't require seble's help or Fox's advertising. We have Crum and Iba opening up early this week. We have March Madness upcoming in real life. Everyone here should post about HD immediately.

Amen.

Now get off my lawn.

ok, maybe he is a bit repetitive, i just don't see it as severe as you, i guess we won't see eye to eye on it. i do see where you are coming from in general though.

anyway, i did read your earlier post. i dont go on those kinds of websites, but i don't think its a bad idea. i used to be on one for UK basketball and it was against the forum rules to advertise other sites (i checked, i had the same idea you did), but i think generally a fan talking about something as a fan is ok. i think it would be frowned upon to just start a thread advertising it all over, or to spam it in thread posts or comment sections. it could help to mention it casually when it sort of fits though - just not sure how often that is.

do you have any thoughts on the capping of coaches careers? its been thrown around in the past, but been met with stiff resistance. i wonder if that wouldn't be the case, if the plan was more comprehensive and softened up a bit?

edit: also, have you tried the approach you are suggesting? were you able to get anyone to try it out? i think if it was proven successful, that might help other folks get into it.

Posted by gillispie1 on 2/28/2016 1:04:00 PM (view original):

Posted by dacj501 on 2/28/2016 12:58:00 PM (view original):
Now, this isn't a totally fair representation since, at the time, there was no 30 season clock, and had there been one, and I knew about it, my career choices would have very likely been different.

That said, I know you well remember my 17 largely ineffective seasons at Alabama in Tark. My pinnacle was a Sweet 16 in season 58, where I raised the Tide to A- prestige for the only time in my run. That would start my clock.

I bounce around a lot, and toward the end I got particularly driftless as I began to give up on the possibility of ever making it to a top team - figured I wasn't good enough, and that's that, and started to lose interest. But I spent another 27 seasons in various D1 jobs, and never again hit A-. So I'd have 3 seasons left, and I'd still not have accomplished anything...

maybe the lack of foreknowledge is too much for this to be relevant, idk.

link to resume

like i said, i am totally against a hard cap, without some adjustments. your example almost perfectly matches one of the examples from my post, so i agree with you... that said, what is the potential fix? i know you don't like the idea, i inherently don't either, but thinking about the fixes makes me hate it less!

i suggested maybe when you move from one school to another, if its not a- or better to a- or better, then you get 5-10 seasons added back on your clock. in your case, you jumped around a lot, you'd have plenty of clock left. maybe the time added should depend on the situation, if you pick up a mid major, you basically start the clock over. if you pick up a c bcs school, maybe you get 10 more seasons, if its a b bcs school, maybe you get 7, and a- or up, you get 5 (assuming you aren't coming from a- bcs).

so, abstracting away from the specific cases and fixes - let me ask you this. if the system was structured in a way, where it achieved the goal of not penalizing anyone except those who have been at the top for a long time, would you be any less against it? suppose a coach finally gets to a BCS elite, and then gets 40 seasons there, and then has to leave - do you think that is really that bad?

Well, you know my particular HD hard-on pretty well. Let me give you a counter-example.

Let's say the clock starts today with this plan. I'm at MSU, obviously that qualifies and the clock starts. You and I co-coach it for another 3 years IRL winning about 15 titles or whatever. It's now like yr 27 or 28. blhorick finally retires from Syracuse. I get 2 seasons and then I get relegated? Or my 28 seasons don't count coz it wasn't really my "destination" - do we get to pick one Destination school and the clock doesn't start until then?

ok, what if you got the clock reset every time you moved? i am not sure that would work, it might be abused, folks just leaving one elite for another to keep from starting over. but still - if that was the rule - would you think that was reasonable? i think that would at least address the issue a little bit.

I don't have a problem "giving every one a piece of the pie" I guess, as long as I get mine. I'm selfish.

Edited to add: just saying I've waited in line a long time to get here, and it seems that every time I get somewhere in this game someone comes along and moves the ******* line.

just thinking on the idea itself, as opposed to railing against it gnashing and snarling (since I've covered that) - how would it be implemented?

If it went into effect at the beginning of the next season at world rollover like most updates like this the clock starts ticking for all the powerhouse schools, and some mid-to-great BCS schools. Most of the time there is little natural movement there, so in 30 seasons probably 90% of those original coaches are still in the same job. They all get relegated. There is a big vacuum, that unless jobs qualifications were also fixed, would be unable to be filled by more than a handful of possible applicants.

Assume we fix that, and 2 dozen good to great programs don't have to fall into disrepair just so that coaches that are probably burning their quota treading water waiting for enough decay to occur can take over and spend more of their limited time rebuilding back to the time of exodus. Assuming that, we now have a class of how many? 20, 30 coaches that will all expire once again at roughly the same time?

How long until variances in resumes sift out so its just a few coaches every season? I really have no idea.

Posted by dacj501 on 2/28/2016 1:36:00 PM (view original):
just thinking on the idea itself, as opposed to railing against it gnashing and snarling (since I've covered that) - how would it be implemented?

If it went into effect at the beginning of the next season at world rollover like most updates like this the clock starts ticking for all the powerhouse schools, and some mid-to-great BCS schools. Most of the time there is little natural movement there, so in 30 seasons probably 90% of those original coaches are still in the same job. They all get relegated. There is a big vacuum, that unless jobs qualifications were also fixed, would be unable to be filled by more than a handful of possible applicants.

Assume we fix that, and 2 dozen good to great programs don't have to fall into disrepair just so that coaches that are probably burning their quota treading water waiting for enough decay to occur can take over and spend more of their limited time rebuilding back to the time of exodus. Assuming that, we now have a class of how many? 20, 30 coaches that will all expire once again at roughly the same time?

How long until variances in resumes sift out so its just a few coaches every season? I really have no idea.

I tried to address that by saying the reset was at 50 years, but that for all those coaches over 50 years, only a certain amount were rolled over, heck maybe since we are talking 50 seasons, why not roll over all those on their 50th birthdays, plus 1/50th of those over 50 years. It would amount to 1-2 coaches each season of old timers, and probably 3-4 50 yr vets (there are only a couple of hundred coaches per world per the population data right?. Hardly any effect per year, yet over 50 seasons, everyone would roll over - just like real life?

Posted by possumfiend on 2/28/2016 10:42:00 AM (view original):

Posted by hughesjr on 2/28/2016 8:27:00 AM (view original):

Posted by possumfiend on 2/27/2016 8:03:00 PM (view original):
"We're always looking for ways to market the games, but we're very limited on budget." - developer's chat 9/17/2015

It's difficult to advertise if they don't get much of a budget and they won't get much of a budget if they don't start bringing in more users to increase their revenues and operating income. It's a vicious never ending cycle.

Which is why I said to do it as part of their Fox Sports networks. If the guys doing the college basketball sportscasts and sports news mention it, it is free (if the NCAA will allow it).

Understood but I don't think it would be free. WIS is a part of Fox Sports Digital Media ("FSDM") which is a subsidiary of Fox Entertainment Group ("FEG"). Fox Sports Networks ("FSN") is a separate division of FEG. It's easiest to probably think of them as separate businesses even though they operate under the same corporate umbrella. So while no actual check would be cut, or physical cash would be exchanged if WIS started "advertising" on FSN it would still impact both of their operating budgets. FOX accounting would most likely charge the advertising costs against the WIS budget and show it as advertising revenue earned by FSN.

It would seem intuitive that WIS could get a free or cheap plugs on the network, but what is the Network's incentive to do so? FSN makes their money from advertising so if they suddenly start giving away air time for free to other Fox related entities they become a shill for everything Fox owned and where will they ever make their money? And if WIS is given free air time, won't Fox owned Nat Geo, or upcoming FOX feature films like Independence Day, Ice Age, or Planet of the Apes also then want free advertising? Wouldn't the consumer products division start asking for the anchors and broadcasters to display merchandise on the sports desks? And if the network does nothing more than shamelessly plug FOX owned products and give away their advertising space and air time for free, how will they ever set competitive rates and encourage outsiders to advertise with them?

There would also be issues with the sportscasters and announcers themselves. How much do their contracts call for them to advertise everything Fox owned? If they had a good agent it's highly doubtful they are required to advertise everything Fox owned (which they may or may not support or use) without some form of additional compensation or speaking fee.

I guess my point, in a long winded fashion, is I don't think advertising is as simple or free as it might appear on the surface.

Uhh, wow. This is some pretty detailed stuff here. Pretty impressive knowledge Possum if I do say so myself.

OR, i definitely dont think you could just tell people tomorrow, hey guys, you are at your 50th year, time to restart the game - people already have their teams built for next year, it would be brutal. i think a 20 season notice would give people ample time, but that is a way out, maybe could get away with 10. probably 15 would be a decent middle ground.

still, i think a 50 year straight limit is a bad idea, for reasons i've outlined. any comments on any of that? what about the guy who spends 25 seasons in d2, and picks up his first bcs school, already 40+ seasons in, with a rebuild in front of him? how is it fair that he may get a couple seasons of an a+, if he's lucky, while someone else moving up steadily might get 30?

Posted by oldresorter on 2/28/2016 1:52:00 PM (view original):

Posted by dacj501 on 2/28/2016 1:36:00 PM (view original):
just thinking on the idea itself, as opposed to railing against it gnashing and snarling (since I've covered that) - how would it be implemented?

If it went into effect at the beginning of the next season at world rollover like most updates like this the clock starts ticking for all the powerhouse schools, and some mid-to-great BCS schools. Most of the time there is little natural movement there, so in 30 seasons probably 90% of those original coaches are still in the same job. They all get relegated. There is a big vacuum, that unless jobs qualifications were also fixed, would be unable to be filled by more than a handful of possible applicants.

Assume we fix that, and 2 dozen good to great programs don't have to fall into disrepair just so that coaches that are probably burning their quota treading water waiting for enough decay to occur can take over and spend more of their limited time rebuilding back to the time of exodus. Assuming that, we now have a class of how many? 20, 30 coaches that will all expire once again at roughly the same time?

How long until variances in resumes sift out so its just a few coaches every season? I really have no idea.

I tried to address that by saying the reset was at 50 years, but that for all those coaches over 50 years, only a certain amount were rolled over, heck maybe since we are talking 50 seasons, why not roll over all those on their 50th birthdays, plus 1/50th of those over 50 years. It would amount to 1-2 coaches each season of old timers, and probably 3-4 50 yr vets (there are only a couple of hundred coaches per world per the population data right?. Hardly any effect per year, yet over 50 seasons, everyone would roll over - just like real life?

Yes, that may help with that bunching issue I was thinking about - but then when would coaches find out? Would it be like EE and after the season you just get a random welcome to relegation message? That would be worse than knowing it was coming I think...if someone would rather not start over but just bought a bunch of seasons, or cashed in reward points for GCs or credits (instead of say Amazon gift cards) would they be recompensed?

Note folks, this is me trying to be helpful. I think of all the possible things that could go wrong and ask what if. My family likes it better when I just say, "**** no," generally...

Posted by dacj501 on 2/28/2016 1:02:00 PM (view original):

Posted by gillispie1 on 2/28/2016 12:59:00 PM (view original):

Posted by guyo26 on 2/28/2016 12:57:00 PM (view original):
I don't think I'm for a cap or a limit. I have a couple of Big6 teams, but no A+ baseline school, and I've never won a title at any level if that matters. I've chosen schools because I went there, I've chosen schools for the conference difficulty, I've chosen schools for the oddball aspect (Puerto Rico, AK), I've chosen schools because that was the Big6 team I qualified for and wanted. I've chosen schools because they're close to where I live.

At no time did I choose a school because that was the end of the line. I don't see it as a linear progression of starting out at D3 at some school you've never heard of, working up to D2, then up through D1 until you're at XYZ school that we all know and see on TV. I suppose if I was worried about winning a title and thought that I had to have one of a small handful of schools at D1 to do it then I'd move to D2 or D3.

I think there's some truth to D2 being the "best" level of this game. Anyone can take any school and win a title. Even if it's not the "name" schools that are so coveted in D1, it's a purely level playing field (you could argue except for the PR schools, but still). I think many of us get enamored with the A+'s because that's who we know or who we root for, but I like the thread where people relate stories about being on a plane and seeing a shirt for some D3 school and almost blurting out that they coach them. Does anyone ever do that when they see someone wearing a UNC shirt?

I know some people have reasons for being fired up that their school isn't open, but I don't see that as a reason to pick up your ball and go home or to force change on everyone else. We can wait. Sure it takes years, and hundreds of dollars, but just work on being the best coach in D2 then? See if you can make a Hartford team that doesn't excel in Ath and Def go to the S16 and shock everyone.

It's true that it's not really "What If ..." at D1, but that's ok. There's still, to me, a ton of fun in this game at all levels. Jsa crushes at Delaware Valley College. I'm not even sure what state that's in and I played him for about a year IRL. There are D2 coaches (sorry for lack of names, but D2 is my weak spot) that are amazing coaches. Sure, maybe they're not coaching Kansas or Kentucky to 50 straight Final Fours, but who cares?

I got all rambly. I don't think there's any need for caps. Firing could be improved, but I don't see WIS ever making paying people mad like that. If you want an A+ and it's not open, join another world or find another way to win and enjoy. Colors and school names don't really mean that much at the end of the day to me.

i agree with most of this. but guyo... delaware valley college is in - delaware! :)

hey, he's right to be confused - Ohio Valley is in West Virginia...

Not to mention both California University and Indiana University.......both D2 schools in Pennsylvania.

I've pretty much stopped playing D1 and only play D2 nowadays, with maybe the quick D3 season just to qualify for D2. Having said that, there are a couple of D2 schools that I've been at my quite a long time. Post in Rupp being one and then my baby, Northeastern State in Tark (under my other ID) being the other. I've been at Northeastern State since season 3 and have been the only coach that school has ever known in Tark. I have to admit that were I forced to give up either of those D2 schools due to some artificially implemented time limits, then I would have to take my ball and go home.

My complaint would be that ANY D2 school can be turned into a contender in no more than 4 seasons or so, so why should any of us lower on the totem pole be forced to leave? Unless your alma mater is Bentley (because Reigny seems to have that school locked down in every world. Pretty close anyway), there's a world were your favorite school is open in either D2 or D3. So don't punish us. If there IS to be some kind of time limit, it would only be fair if it were to apply to D1, and high level D1 at that. I know that's what most people seem to agree upon, just wanted to throw a long term D2 viewpoint into the mix.

And because I don't want to re-quote his whole post, OR made mention about a bunch of coaches having to return to D3 and theoretically some not being able to cut it and end up stuck for a few seasons (paraphrasing). Just wanted to point out an example. There's a coach in one of my conferences who, in the 4 seasons immediately preceding his move to D2, somehow managed to get promoted all while winning a total of TWO GAMES TOTAL! Yes, you read that right. A coach went 2-106 over a 4 year period and was still able to move from D3 to D2. Whatever happened to those olden days where you basically HAD to make the NT in order to even "think" about getting promoted? 2-106? Really? Yep.

**Edit** Turns out that guy is not in my conference after all and I had just happened to stumble across him. And now I can't seem to find him, but he exists I promise. For real. I swear.

Ok, I'm going to chime in here. Keep in mind I have NOT been here as long as many of the coaches in this thread.

As mentioned several times before, the biggest issues with HD is the lack of advertising. Where there is a will there is a way and clearly there is no will from Fox Sports

Whenever a large update is made to the game that changes how things are done it results in participation numbers dropping off significantly. This comes back to advertising. People who currently play the game like the game. When changes are made a certain percentage quit playing and are NOT replaced with anyone new because of the lack of advertising. Also, the idea "a new upgrade would bring old users back" is a 100% pipe dream.

The biggest issue with D1 is the recruit generation. There needs to be less guys who are absolute crap and more potential guys, diamonds-in-the-rough, or project guys.....call them what you want. Yes the top schools will still get the top talent, but the smaller schools can bring in a class of 5-6 guys who they can develop into good players (basically meaning more High-High potentials) who would have a chance to make an Elite-8 run (not a guarantee, but a better chance than it is now). Things that would also help this idea would be giving a small bump to the value of Off/Def IQ. This would make SRs/JRs who were projects be able to compete with the stud SOs/FRs.


The idea of making a coach re-start after 50 seasons just isn't right. I could possibly get behind the idea of you can only stay at a school for 40-50 seasons, then must move on, BUT you would still have your D1 status. The jobs logic needs to be revamped as well. Not to make firings crazy, but slight tweaks need to be made to make things a little more interesting. Or create logic to have schools come after coaches (low-level D1 schools reaching out to successful D2 coaches, etc).

I truly believe this update Seble talked about 5 months ago is going to really hurt HD, unless there is an advertising plan that is going to follow the release (which we all know there won't be). The resources (time and money) spent on this upgrade should have gone into advertising.

Posted by gillispie1 on 2/28/2016 2:08:00 PM (view original):
OR, i definitely dont think you could just tell people tomorrow, hey guys, you are at your 50th year, time to restart the game - people already have their teams built for next year, it would be brutal. i think a 20 season notice would give people ample time, but that is a way out, maybe could get away with 10. probably 15 would be a decent middle ground.

still, i think a 50 year straight limit is a bad idea, for reasons i've outlined. any comments on any of that? what about the guy who spends 25 seasons in d2, and picks up his first bcs school, already 40+ seasons in, with a rebuild in front of him? how is it fair that he may get a couple seasons of an a+, if he's lucky, while someone else moving up steadily might get 30?

50 years is a lifetime in real life, a coach's life, you chose how you wish to spend it, and see what you can accomplish. and then you die, and start over.

And remember, without you and I and guys like us hogging all the good jobs for the entire team we choose to play, others who want to move up can, so in your example, the guy who spends 25 yrs in d2, if he wants to, will have more room to move up. And that person will know he is in a 50 season life, if he is trying his hardest, and does what you stated, that is how good he got, IMO he will get farther without being blocked by you and me if he wants to get farther, and if he can't, he can try again, and see if he can do better in his second life.

The only people straight 50 will be unfair to is the best coaches, in a zero sum game, we are giving up years of big 6 schools for others who will get them.

IMO it is possible, this 50 year life thing would fix recruiting, as the good coaches would be spread out more, and there would be less competition for the top recruits since the coaches would be spread out over all divisions.

Here is an idea: There are 65,000+ college basketball fans at the college basketball subreddit on Reddit.com. If anyone could write a summary on the game and get the mods there to agree with some free promotion, it could expose Hoops Dynasty to a lot of people. I think most people on that subreddit are exactly the type of people that would enjoy a simulation game of their favorite sport. We would probably need permission from the mods over there and maybe post it in the offseason as a way for fans to "get their fix" during the off season.