I think the "best" coaches will take the 50 year thing and just make smaller D1 conferences compete. See the whole Conf USA project. There's no reason you and CBG and others that were "forced" to leave an A+ prestige team after 50 seasons wouldn't/couldn't go to CUSA or MWC or someplace else and build it up.

At a certain point the cream rises to the top. I mean does B6 A+ have inherent built in advantages? Of course. But if relegation existed some would just leave and some would just continue being good wherever they were. It would be really funny to see things flip flopped like that where all of the high level coaches only took low level D1 schools and the FF every year was the likes of Dayton, St Bonaventure, UTEP, Idaho, etc lol

Posted by timjmiller on 2/28/2016 3:11:00 PM (view original):
Here is an idea: There are 65,000+ college basketball fans at the college basketball subreddit on Reddit.com. If anyone could write a summary on the game and get the mods there to agree with some free promotion, it could expose Hoops Dynasty to a lot of people. I think most people on that subreddit are exactly the type of people that would enjoy a simulation game of their favorite sport. We would probably need permission from the mods over there and maybe post it in the offseason as a way for fans to "get their fix" during the off season.

**** maybe if we get inspired for a real grassroots promotion campaign, we can gather all team forums as mentioned earlier then have just one good message that can be copy and pasted onto the forums. I feel like that'd work really well on bringing new users

1- I don't like 50 years. I agree with DAC- if by some miracle I finally got to all three of my destination jobs, I'm probably walk away from the game (not that I haven't before, but I've come back) for good, as that would be the end of the 'goals'.
2- I still think (and it's an old problem) the baseline prestige are one of the causes. Some worlds are 80+ years in, and the top schools 80 years ago are not all the same top schools now. (Heck, some may not even have D1 basketball anymore...). Its shocking after years of saying there needs to be something that ties the baseline into the last 30-50 seasons hasn't happened. I should be able to make Illinois State into an A+ Baseline if I go to 15 straight final fours, where in HD, the baseline won't do that. If the Southern Conference has won 10 straight national championships, it should be considered equal to the BCS conferences in HD's mind. You create artificial kings of the mountain, that no matter their past successes or current trajectory are better than 200 other schools without questions with any level of competency as a coach.
3- Firings. If we insist on having the 8(?) A+ baseline schools, those schools need to have no mercy.
BUt... those are D1 Issues. They could be blamed some, but D1 isn't the only level 'low' on players.

Taking a step back, and please don't take these as sour apples... I'm okay with my ability in this game.

This game is hard.

Plain and simple. Some people figure it out in 1 RL year, others in more or less time, but very few people can wander in here and be great out of the gate. Of course, the community is very helpful, it always has been. We still cannot forget that it takes a level of work ethic and intelligence (and I believe since I still suck, luck) to figure out how the game works, and how to be good at it. It's very hard for a game that many will fail at for months to suck in new people. I wouldn't ever want that to change, but think of how the world has changed even since I found HD. Most people had a flip phone (the iPhone didn't even come out until the next summer). Very few games had online capabilities, certainally not with the ease of setup as the PS4's and XBox's of today. Facebook was still college students only. A. Some people have had THAT LONG to figure out how to be great at this game and B. the level of competition in the gaming industry has exploded. All those factors are going to hurt the game in numbers of people, even if it's on the same level as Warcraft.
On a side note to that, fundamentally, this game hasn't really changed since I found it in 2006. I think fatigue subs, potential, FSS and the removal of positions are the big ones I can recall, along with a graphical facelift (ohhhh, player faces). There have been thousands of little tweaks under the hood, but it's still basically the same game. I believe that some people here (which includes me too) forget how simply daunting this game is to figure out how to do things, what's good or bad and how to win.
Add in little frustrating things such as losing a recruit while asleep, losses that make no sense to you, entire gameplans out the window with two quick fouls and all those other little things... the big point I'm making is it takes a special kind of person to stick with this game. I had to drop it (most recently) when I had a child, as I simply didn't have enough time to be as good as I wanted to be anymore. It costs 15 bucks a season to figure out what the heck you are doing as a coach. These things are not going to attract people in 'my' generation in droves (I guess I'm the old end...). I teach High School, and while the kids are all playing Clash of Clans, or whatever the random browser/phone game of the month is (I honestly can't keep up), for free, I don't think I could even pay for them to do this game. Don't lose sight that this game is not going to get the average person to love it.

Yes, promotion is a big problem as well. In that regard (and I don't blame him) the moment Tarek cashed out, this went from someone's complete baby and livelyhood to a small hidden department in a giant company, and the fight to make it bigger went away. This is no knock on Seble or anyone else at WIS, but the reality is the game is no longer being put front and center by its owners. Now, its probably not going to change unless the hipsters decided that text based sports sims are the new rage. Somehow the small group on the 'net that love the idea of text based sports sims should be tapped into.

Lastly, someone (can't recall who and too tired to scroll back) made the point that the speed of development appears slow to the average person. I personally can't picture a staff of more than 5-10 that are truly, 100% about WIS that are programming/planning future developments. The hockey group was promised that Hockey Dynasty was next on the menu (or at least in production) in 2010. As I said before, HD is basically in the same state (outwardly) as it has been since the potential update. Versus some of the other sims on this site, HD has been pretty well loved and worked on. Reality is we're a small customer base of a small company in a small market, and changes and updates are not going to be quick. I love Eastside Hockey Manager- it took one programmer (for Sports Interactive, so he has to have some ability) the better part of 9 years to make an upgrade in his spare time that was good enough to be a new release. This group has to manage not only development, but an online community, keep the current thing running and try to spread this across 8 games with little to no overlap in their code. Patience is a good thing.

Sorry to rant so long, but I wanted to try and provide some of my perspective on the thing.

For us guys who play and struggle we pay full price or get a $1.50 of every now and then. That's the big problem I've gotten bout ten people to sign up in the first few season I played. (Before the two a day worlds) the problem is a beginner doesn't get the experience in just their first season. They won't sign up for more. Not for 45$ or what ever it is to play thru your first recruiting class. The price point is outrageous considering the fan duel experience people can use that 12$ every two weeks and play the online gaming of betting on sports. If they don't hit they are in the same boat we are nothing to show for the money.

As as far as message boards of our favorite basketball teams. Seems like they have fallen off over the years as well. Bearcatnews.com is a shell of its self.

Lower the price point 7$ a season, I'll go back to having 2 to 5 teams instead of the one I suck at now.

This is the best site for this type of game. I've never found one remotely close. I really enjoy it. Except when I play 7 ot games in a season and lose 6 keeps me out of the post season and now the game wants me fired for two kids leaving the program. Which I can't get another d1 job and I would lose interest and never spend a dime again on this stupid set up of a game. That I really like if now love in a small way. I am somehow hooked where I never get better and when I think I have a good team I **** it away with 6 losses in OT during the one season and not to mention the one game I lost with no time on the clock to the best team in my conference playing with out a coach

I agree Joco. I love to rebuild teams that have never been to a NT. It costs me a minimum of 38.85 to make the NT for a $3 bonus credit within 3 seasons. Great for WIS but hard on my pocketbook. Not sure how you remedy this but $1 bonus just for staying with the same team or something no matter what would be a start...

Didn't someone do some quick math one time and figure that it cost a little over $2 a week for a 1x world and something like $2.50 for a 2x world?

If you are paying the full amount it is around $3.36 a week for 2x worlds. Not very much I know but if you have a few teams it does add up.

Posted by guyo26 on 2/28/2016 3:18:00 PM (view original):
I think the "best" coaches will take the 50 year thing and just make smaller D1 conferences compete. See the whole Conf USA project. There's no reason you and CBG and others that were "forced" to leave an A+ prestige team after 50 seasons wouldn't/couldn't go to CUSA or MWC or someplace else and build it up.

At a certain point the cream rises to the top. I mean does B6 A+ have inherent built in advantages? Of course. But if relegation existed some would just leave and some would just continue being good wherever they were. It would be really funny to see things flip flopped like that where all of the high level coaches only took low level D1 schools and the FF every year was the likes of Dayton, St Bonaventure, UTEP, Idaho, etc lol

GUYO - what I described is they'd be forced to start again at d3, think of it as they are 26 yr old first year coaches again.

EMY as for the cost issue, If top coaches were sent back to d3, some of the free seasons would get spread around too.

Posted by oldresorter on 2/29/2016 10:18:00 AM (view original):

Posted by guyo26 on 2/28/2016 3:18:00 PM (view original):
I think the "best" coaches will take the 50 year thing and just make smaller D1 conferences compete. See the whole Conf USA project. There's no reason you and CBG and others that were "forced" to leave an A+ prestige team after 50 seasons wouldn't/couldn't go to CUSA or MWC or someplace else and build it up.

At a certain point the cream rises to the top. I mean does B6 A+ have inherent built in advantages? Of course. But if relegation existed some would just leave and some would just continue being good wherever they were. It would be really funny to see things flip flopped like that where all of the high level coaches only took low level D1 schools and the FF every year was the likes of Dayton, St Bonaventure, UTEP, Idaho, etc lol

GUYO - what I described is they'd be forced to start again at d3, think of it as they are 26 yr old first year coaches again.

EMY as for the cost issue, If top coaches were sent back to d3, some of the free seasons would get spread around too.

Oh, no doubt OR, I'm in total agreement with you on that. I can't remember if I posted it or was just thinking it yesterday but if I was "forced" to give up D2 teams to go back to D3 and start over, I'd 100% guaranteed quit the game. Nobody should be complaining about how the jobs work in D2 or D3 and unless I missed someone I don't think there is anyone. But my point is, forcing coaches to leave teams or start over should be a D1 issue only.

I took over Post directly from you in Rupp. You had won the D2 title and moved up and I had won the D3 title and moved right into your old digs. Guess what? I'm still there. As I've mentioned many times, I've been at Northeastern State in D2 Tark since season 3. That was my first ever D2 school and I have no intentions of leaving until I decide to quit the game altogether. D2 and D3 are too level of playing fields to force coaches to leave after some arbitrary number of seasons. D1? Sure. But not the other two. Even low level D1 might not be a good idea to force coaches to leave. Maybe it "should" be just at BCS schools and maybe the clock should start for each individual coach the first time they hire in at a BCS team. I don't know, just spit balling at this point.

Posted by joco45215 on 2/29/2016 7:35:00 AM (view original):
For us guys who play and struggle we pay full price or get a $1.50 of every now and then. That's the big problem I've gotten bout ten people to sign up in the first few season I played. (Before the two a day worlds) the problem is a beginner doesn't get the experience in just their first season. They won't sign up for more. Not for 45$ or what ever it is to play thru your first recruiting class. The price point is outrageous considering the fan duel experience people can use that 12$ every two weeks and play the online gaming of betting on sports. If they don't hit they are in the same boat we are nothing to show for the money.

As as far as message boards of our favorite basketball teams. Seems like they have fallen off over the years as well. Bearcatnews.com is a shell of its self.

Lower the price point 7$ a season, I'll go back to having 2 to 5 teams instead of the one I suck at now.

This has been my point all along...on a variety of different threads. I don't think WIS needs to lower the cost overall, but it could consider running a $4.95 first season, FreeHD during the RL Tournament, AND add a special one-time, 5 season purchase price for new users. Perhaps take that initial commitment down to the $7 per season that joco mentions (so, $35-$39, rather than $60).

After that, if users consistently fall out of the $$, very few are going to stick around. Since D3 is clogged up with old time coaches that consistently hog most of the D3 NT spots, then that is a barrier to entry for new members. It artificially raises noob's costs and makes their retention very unlikely. So, after 15 seasons at D3, rewards need to diminish to create an incentive for experienced users to move up.

Firings should be increased at upper tier D1 and should be entirely absent below mid-majors. How the hell does it help anyone to fire the coach at UMBD?! If someone wants to pay to suck at UMBD, take their money!!! The spots that need to be opened up via firings are the Big 6 jobs and positions with higher baselines (assuming that system were retained). My personal feeling on the talk about a 50 season perpetuity clause in user IDs is just: no. I'm full of "no" on that. Users should be able to play as they wish, at D1 & D2, but this game desperately needs a noob level...no other place for that than D3.

There is no point in spending any money on advertising until some of those changes to the price structure are made and cosmetic changes are made to facilitate play on a phone. It'd be great, if that huge update were tabled so that some minor updates, the cosmetic change and a new price/rewards scheme could be rolled out quickly. Then web-advertising on Fox's own platforms would make sense during the upcoming tournament. They run a tourney pick'em game...a banner ad on that would capture the right audience.

One thing that I've always personally thought about the cost issue is that if playing this game is making you dig through the couch for change, then it might be time to cut back on a team or three. If you only have a single team and you're "still" scraping for change, then it might be time to step back, take a very deep breath, and re-evaluate your financial priorities.

One last thing and this will sound kind of "douche-y" of me, but after the roll-out for potential, when we basically had to pay to beta test because it was screwed up so bad and they were trying to fix things on the fly, I won't do WiS' dirty work for them ever again.

I'm not going to pay to play the game AND go do their advertising for them as well. Not gonna happen. If they want to give me a shitload of free seasons, I'll post in every forum I can find but I won't do their work for them for free. If the game dies, then it dies and I'll move on to something else and be happy that I got a decade's worth of enjoyment out of the game. But if the game dies because "I" didn't go out and advertise for them, then it was going to die anyway (and after seeing that last batch of numbers about world populations, the game is on its deathbed as I type this. I'm justb trying to win a couple more titles before its over).

Posted by emy1013 on 2/29/2016 10:36:00 AM (view original):

Posted by oldresorter on 2/29/2016 10:18:00 AM (view original):

Posted by guyo26 on 2/28/2016 3:18:00 PM (view original):
I think the "best" coaches will take the 50 year thing and just make smaller D1 conferences compete. See the whole Conf USA project. There's no reason you and CBG and others that were "forced" to leave an A+ prestige team after 50 seasons wouldn't/couldn't go to CUSA or MWC or someplace else and build it up.

At a certain point the cream rises to the top. I mean does B6 A+ have inherent built in advantages? Of course. But if relegation existed some would just leave and some would just continue being good wherever they were. It would be really funny to see things flip flopped like that where all of the high level coaches only took low level D1 schools and the FF every year was the likes of Dayton, St Bonaventure, UTEP, Idaho, etc lol

GUYO - what I described is they'd be forced to start again at d3, think of it as they are 26 yr old first year coaches again.

EMY as for the cost issue, If top coaches were sent back to d3, some of the free seasons would get spread around too.

Oh, no doubt OR, I'm in total agreement with you on that. I can't remember if I posted it or was just thinking it yesterday but if I was "forced" to give up D2 teams to go back to D3 and start over, I'd 100% guaranteed quit the game. Nobody should be complaining about how the jobs work in D2 or D3 and unless I missed someone I don't think there is anyone. But my point is, forcing coaches to leave teams or start over should be a D1 issue only.

I took over Post directly from you in Rupp. You had won the D2 title and moved up and I had won the D3 title and moved right into your old digs. Guess what? I'm still there. As I've mentioned many times, I've been at Northeastern State in D2 Tark since season 3. That was my first ever D2 school and I have no intentions of leaving until I decide to quit the game altogether. D2 and D3 are too level of playing fields to force coaches to leave after some arbitrary number of seasons. D1? Sure. But not the other two. Even low level D1 might not be a good idea to force coaches to leave. Maybe it "should" be just at BCS schools and maybe the clock should start for each individual coach the first time they hire in at a BCS team. I don't know, just spit balling at this point.

all good ideas emy, I think 'just spitballin' is really all I was doing too. I posted more due to I was adamantly against the forced reset last time I read about it, while when I read this post, along with how shocking the population data is, made me think, maybe someone should at least listen to some of those comments, and at least talk about the issue a little bit?

I think the price per season is too high. If worlds are filled, then $12 or whatever is fine. I think decreasing the cost to $6 per season would be better. When I mention the $12 price tag to friends, they are surprised it's so high.