So, having spent a few days pushing most of the buttons in the new interface and now having rang the recruiting bells for a few hours, I think its more than obvious, in my humble opinion, this thing is much more of a "marketing" upgrade that just so happens to be masquerading as a "product" update. Does it look a hell of a lot slicker and will it function more seamlessly once the bugs get worked out...I think the answer to both of those is absolutely, and even more so should they heed the users' suggestions. Which I think is backed-up by the fact that the majority of the feedback deals not with new features but old ones that people would like to see integrated better.

I think its noteworthy to point-out that the only tab which is aesthetically different from all of the other ones are the new functions within recruiting itself. They are much less generic and much more graphics based than all the others. The same general type of features that, which I'm sure everyone has also noticed, have been used to remake almost every facet of WIS website over the past 8 to 12 months. So, in reality, it was only a matter of time before it was to be extended into the games as well, but this fact alone is quite understandable and, as far as functionality goes, can be a good thing.

However, can a link be drawn between the eventuality of the upgrade which everyone is now consciously (if not subconsciously for a long time) aware of and the complete overhaul of recruiting that we have been presented??? I think the answer is yes...but it is too simplistic to say this must be the case since they were rolled-out together, although rather telling, and too speculative to claim the recruiting update is a Freudian manifestation brought about both in response to and by a process that was itself motivated by the exact same insecurities, although not entirely unfounded I think. But, given the previously made points along with the fact that these aesthetic changes aren't needed in order to facilitate the recruiting update, I don't think it is a stretch in the least to say that these upgrades are the primary factor for the update to HD rather than recruiting. However, I think possibly the more relevant and insightful question is whether these factors are in any way responsible for influencing the nature or outcome of the proposed recruiting update. A link of this type, whose effect might have far ranging implications, is also a much more difficult one to establish, especially since I have absolutely zero knowledge of the inner workings of WIS.

I'll be the first to admit that high-level conspiracies with serious consequences probably take place much more frequently than we would like to imagine. But "conspiracy theories", as they are popularly understood, hold so much sway because of their ability to provide an explanation for individual powerlessness as well as justification for the resulting disenfranchisement, which is typically engendered through general inaction or radical actions. And, where one person sees the illuminati or vast jewish conpiracy another sees Simon Cowell as an inter-dimensional reptilian overload whose plan it is to destroy humanity one terrible TV program at a time...and usually they are a combination of both, because why the hell not. Needless to say, its much easier to direct that energy towards an individual rather than a diffuse unknown many.

With all these things in mind let me layout my positions on the current update(s) then contrast them with a counter, and sometimes much louder, position on the matter. Based on a very wide swath of information, from seble's own words to my views to the extensive opinions of HD users on a variety of topics, I think the proposed (and most likely not to change) recruiting update is a very very very bad idea. The reason I started playing this game and many active veteran users in the community, as well as the majority of those who don't post, have echoed in some form that the large reason they love HD is because its a strategy based game. And this update fundamentally undermines this most basic aspect because the information that is needed on which to actually form a strategy is, for all intents and purposes, basically purged from the game - not to mention further compounded by the need for exceedingly fragmented and tedious decisions based on the vaguest and most unrelated of information. It defeats itself on sooooo many levels that getting into specifics, either theoretically or how it is manifested during the recruiting process, would make this thread even more unbearable than it already is. However, this question of how anuninvited stranger (instead of everybody's favorite drunk auntie, kinda like colonels faded on two bottles of Moet) now lives in your living room and eats breakfast naked each morning is the most pressing issue.

Despite the fact that whenever discussing this update seble always talks in the first person, I'm of the opinion that he's either (a) been told explicitly or suggested in the most aggressive possible fashion to produce something that highlights the newly implemented aesthetics of WIS's, or (b) feels this update is a great time to implement changes that coincide with the goals or current direction of the company. With option (a) there isn't much choice, it is what it is and a player has to grind on them fools, but (b) kinda scares the **** out of me the most because there is nothing more destructive than somebody attempting to "interpreting the will" of somebody and/or something else. As for the other and often loudest opinions on this matter, seble is a complete imbecile that either couldn't tie his shoes or doesn't care about the opinion of the individuals who make his job relevant. I would be outraged and quit HD immediately if i ever found out that one of those options were in deed the case - but for real though, this recruiting update is so bad that it invites these suspicions...and I wouldn't be terribly surprised if it one of them had to be the case.

So, where does the truth of this situation intersect with reality...the answer to which could save us all POUNDS of money and TONS of time??? Although the answer is exceedingly important, it is equally if not more so obscured, and probably for that reason. Hopefully we'll find out sooner than later, because this place and (I'm convinced more so every day) the people here have something special going on. Fairly recently when I took a 4 month hiatus, I rarely logged-in here, but I talked to the gangsters at WIS chat on a weekly if not daily basis. Which gets to the crux of the argument, theOnly way to disenfranchise people is to completely ignore them...whether this is the WIS overloads pulling strings from afar or is purely seble's vision for the future of HD, I can almost assure that it will lead to the figurative decimation of HD if it continues down the same path.

...however, it won't be the literal decimation because zorzii, dac, ars, and benis (but NOT llama because he's a proud man) will still be here balling out yo.

Hey Nacho. really well written. I am not sure I will continue balling... I really dislike the new scouting system. I think it's a waste of time for the same results. I like the new layout, if it's only that, allright, I am in. But scouting... No. I like the new potential being more right, going from red, purple, black, blue, green. It gives us more infos on players and makes us be able to take better décisions. But the scouting system? It takes more time, it really do not add anything. I think it needs to go.

I'm being as open minded as possible to the update but overall I'm in the negative. I think we all agree that the interface looks good. Great job there, some nice improvements.

But the scouting... I'm not sure what people have experienced at D1 but at D3, it's not great. You need more money or things need to be cheaper. I've spent 10 grand out of the 13 grand already and here's what I got

	Level 1	Level 2	Level 3	Level 4
D3	87	14	19	7
D2	3	9	0	1
D1	100	13	2	1

Level 1 is worthless. I'm gonna post on the beta forums about this. This needs to go. You simply can't recruit a guy just knowing the Physical/Offense/Defense. You can't recruit a guy with that and expect to be good.

I'm okay with the Level 2, 3 and 4 but there are still issues. I got a shooting guard with a B- Per that turned into 53 and a B+ BH turn into 52. Okay... maybe some nuances need to be figured out. But still, not awesome.

We'll find out when we start recruiting but I think what will happen is, I have MAYBE 5 guys I like for my 3 spots. Will I get my choice of these 5 guys? Prob not. I will have no backup plan. And it's not like I can go scout another state and hope someone slipped through the cracks. Nor can I just look at the entire list of recruits sans potential and go for someone with nice core numbers. Look at those numbers above, I have spent most of my money and I have enough information on about 40 guys I could go for. Compared that to today? Huge difference.

Get rid of Level 1. Have everyone start with the information of Level 2 right from the get go. I don't recall many people even liking this idea of the Physical/Offense/Defense thing back when Seble proposed it but it still stuck around for some reason. It needs to be killed.

Benis : I always get to the last level... I want to know what I recruit. And in D1, you have so much money, you can actually scout international stats.

To me, it's a waste of time to ST to level 4... We all need to do it to make sure we get real talent, unless in D3, it's done to purposely get you players that you could not scout well.

And how long does scouting last? I see a camp on the 6th... It's way too long. It should not last more than two days.

Newbie question here regarding the update: Do you have to participate in the in-season recruiting, or can you disregard it and recruit at the normal time?

Posted by zorzii on 5/31/2016 11:47:00 AM (view original):
And how long does scouting last? I see a camp on the 6th... It's way too long. It should not last more than two days.

Recruiting doesn't begin until June 24. So the test world is a 1-day world. I've run a few scouting actions. Overall, I like it better than I thought I would. However, it might make the truly skilled players unable to dominate D3, since you may not have funds to get to level 4 scouting on enough recruits to find the gems consistently. That may come out in the wash.

It's a little too soon for final judgment. As you mention, the first "camp" isn't even for a few days. You probably shouldn't have spent a large % of your scouting budget yet. The major change in this update is to scouting & recruiting. We won't know about the latter for about a month. Maybe we can chill?

Posted by PBryant14 on 5/31/2016 11:51:00 AM (view original):
Newbie question here regarding the update: Do you have to participate in the in-season recruiting, or can you disregard it and recruit at the normal time?

I think you need to participate in it. There was a lot of discussion about a 2nd round of recruiting between seasons, but I don't know how that has sorted out. It's also helpful to note that the Beta testing decisions are probably not final yet.

I like it so far. It is interesting and a new challenge. I think it's probably way to early to form any super strong opinions on it, either positive or negative. But I like the improved realism a lot. I really like having to discover the talent, and I like the camps idea a lot.

Posted by chapelhillne on 5/31/2016 12:20:00 PM (view original):
I like it so far. It is interesting and a new challenge. I think it's probably way to early to form any super strong opinions on it, either positive or negative. But I like the improved realism a lot. I really like having to discover the talent, and I like the camps idea a lot.

I feel pretty much the same way.

Don't go full Etta man.

Posted by rogelio on 5/31/2016 11:54:00 AM (view original):

Posted by PBryant14 on 5/31/2016 11:51:00 AM (view original):
Newbie question here regarding the update: Do you have to participate in the in-season recruiting, or can you disregard it and recruit at the normal time?

I think you need to participate in it. There was a lot of discussion about a 2nd round of recruiting between seasons, but I don't know how that has sorted out. It's also helpful to note that the Beta testing decisions are probably not final yet.

Thanks Rogelio. Appreciate it. I wonder if you could start scouting a few days before signings or if that would hinder your effectiveness. Interested to hear how it's going for those testing. Thanks to all posting the updates.

We're only a few days in, but the beta has already confirmed my suspicions that if and when the changes are enacted, I will be retiring from HD. I'm already down to 1 world. I don't have the regular free time that it seems is going to be necessary to actually be successful under the new scouting system. It also looks like luck is going to be a massively enhanced factor. What I like about D2 and D3 is that they're less luck-oriented than D1 (from a recruiting standpoint in particular). From early returns, it looks to me like luck factors more heavily into the lower divisions in the beta than in D1 under the current system. Maybe you'll find some good recruits, but I don't see an obvious path to a reasonably high probability of finding enough to fill 3-4 open spots in a region with competing schools. Maybe as we get deeper in and understand the processes better it will reveal itself, but it's not obvious now.

From my perspective, this is a bad change for a game that's already pushing the limits of how small the user base can be while remaining entertaining to play. And that's not about the luck factor. It's about the time input to maximize your odds of finding those good recruits. It's more work. I will say this - effort should correlate much more strongly with success. Under the current system, a guy who spends 12-15 hours per week micromanaging every aspect of 1-2 teams will develop an edge over a guy who spends 2 hours a week setting a few gameplanning settings and maybe 5-10 total hours on recruiting. But it's not a huge edge. With a little luck, the low-effort guy will still make deep tournament runs, and will certainly beat the high-effort guy head to head a reasonable proportion of the time. I think that gap is about to grow. If you're the high-effort guy, you're going to be excited about that. It's nice to have your efforts rewarded. I used to be that guy, I get it. But probably 75-80% of the user base fits more closely into the low-effort set. If enough of those guys get frustrated and quit then the population crash is easily going to outweigh the effort advantage, even for the high-effort users.

To expand on my last point, I think the following is a valid observation:

Numerous people have, since the update was announced and elicited some negative reactions, been arguing that the initial response before and after release to prior updates has been extremely negative as well, but that ultimately the game has improved over time and the users have grown to like the changes. But the reality is that the user base has never really rebounded. We're down to what, ~100 users per world per level? If we see another 50%+ exodus, will the game still be fun, even if it does turn out to be a great change? In short - I'm not sure this argument holds water. No matter how good the changes are, the initial negative reaction indicates inevitable attrition, as most significant changes to gameplay would likely elicit. It's been said ad nauseum on these forums, but more advertising to grow the user base is an absolute necessity, or this game will die a slow death. But any big changes without growing the user base first seem likely to just bury it before its time.