i think its presumptive to think most users beef was specifically with any one person, but rather with wis collective handling of this, unless seble had simply gone rogue. The beef is with wis, and they are wis. Agreed they deserve to be heard fairly, but they stand on a platform and foundation of the secrecy of seble leaving that they collectively orchestrated.

Posted by vandydave on 9/28/2016 12:41:00 AM (view original):
i think its presumptive to think most users beef was specifically with any one person, but rather with wis collective handling of this, unless seble had simply gone rogue. The beef is with wis, and they are wis. Agreed they deserve to be heard fairly, but they stand on a platform and foundation of the secrecy of seble leaving that they collectively orchestrated.

Agreed. I should've phrased that in a better way.

Posted by vandydave on 9/28/2016 12:41:00 AM (view original):
i think its presumptive to think most users beef was specifically with any one person, but rather with wis collective handling of this, unless seble had simply gone rogue. The beef is with wis, and they are wis. Agreed they deserve to be heard fairly, but they stand on a platform and foundation of the secrecy of seble leaving that they collectively orchestrated.

This all day. Unfortunately, the damage is already done. I'd love to wipe the slate clean and dump 3.0, and see a legitimate chance to receive true feedback from the customer base before implementing.

This is not to say there are not some nice additions, but as a whole people can't ignore the fact that a guy, who many believe already knew he was leaving, just spearheaded a project to make significant changes to a game that was not broken and he was obviously not invested in the long term future of. He made these decisions without a care for what for what the customer base actually wanted. Out of nowhere, we just get a thread one day that there will be significant changes to the system, that most didn't want and to suck it up. Ever think the guy who already knows he's leaving is just trying to get this last project done and off his plate before he goes? Odds are he didn't care if it's a good product since he wasn't going to be around after release anyways?

And where the hell was the rest of WIS? Did they just tell him do what you want? This game has been poorly supported for a long time and then when they finally want to interact, they throw a pile of **** on the table and then leave. Then someone new comes in to clean up that mess and all they have to say is we didn't create the mess, but this is what we have to work with now, when in reality, they could have just improved something that wasn't broken. Change for the sake of change is not necessary. I haven't been vocal on the forums in a long time before this update and I typically try not to be too much now, but this is a joke. Then we get told to kill the negativity until our seasons end basically sweeping the people who have participated in this game for so long out the door, because a little effort couldn't be made before making significant changes to find out what people actually think is the problem?

There's a reason so many people look so negatively towards GD. This is the same case.

I am not sold on 3.0 Emy, Vandy. But I wish we give a chance to the new designers to make it right. Let's continue to point out flaws. So far D2 recruiting is not as bad as I thought. Scouting needs work for sure. But I like the game, so I hope they get on it as much as we like them to be and we end up with a better product.

Why can't you have it both ways? I am happy to work with new developers that may listen to the concerns of users instead of just shove the game in the direction of a video game without the users clamoring for those changes. I also worry that WIS staff is down one employee who if offered a buyout may not be being replaced which will further limit the amount of time spent on each game. Also it is disingenuous not to tell the user base that the guy making decisions many don't support has a foot out the door

Wow - just heard about this. I think the best thing we can all do is give the new developers a chance and have some patience. I doubt they will change anything right away because the real worlds are already kind of different from the Beta experience. I think that the job Seble left was probably one of the most difficult jobs anyone could have. He was assigned, or decided to make major changes to a product that is a big part of the lives of the users. No matter what changes were made, users were going to be unhappy, because some did not want any change in recruiting and scouting.

But this is a clean slate right now from my perspective. None of us really know what will happen.

The developers now have a chance to earn the support of users by being more involved. They could post more frequently on the forums. Perhaps they could announce that they are going to immediately work to solve one of the issues that most people agree on, like the jobs change process. That would be a topic that would not be controversial or change the game play, and would probably be relatively easy to fix. And it would show that perhaps they will become more involved.

I always wondered why some very minor things were not changed over the years that I have played. One example was only having two hours for the first recruiting actions. As a user, just seeing "something" from the developers would have made many of the users feel like concerns were being addressed instead of letting frustrations build to a boiling point. Had they done this, I think people would have been less likely to blow up over 3.0 and give it a chance.

But for now, my suggestion is to have an optimistic outlook until proven otherwise. And let's see how 3.0 truly plays out.

no reason to doubt them, so why not...

The fact that seble had left and had no interest in posting in these forums has been obvious for about a month. Any personal attacks are simply misguided and always have been. The idea that the WIS assigned a single person a task and let him run rogue with it after having accepted a buyout is ludicrous. So, everyone can please stop with that nonsense.

A great deal of the criticism on these forums is simply a fact of the internet. People don't behave like this face-to-face. Seble did an admirable job making the update functional and applying a variety of new concepts to the game. On the other hand, the thresholds, probability functions, and weight of all these new preferences needs to be looked at very carefully over the next 6 months. The new admins take over where the rubber meets the road.

Posted by rogelio on 9/28/2016 9:23:00 AM (view original):
The fact that seble had left and had no interest in posting in these forums has been obvious for about a month. Any personal attacks are simply misguided and always have been. The idea that the WIS assigned a single person a task and let him run rogue with it after having accepted a buyout is ludicrous. So, everyone can please stop with that nonsense.

A great deal of the criticism on these forums is simply a fact of the internet. People don't behave like this face-to-face. Seble did an admirable job making the update functional and applying a variety of new concepts to the game. On the other hand, the thresholds, probability functions, and weight of all these new preferences needs to be looked at very carefully over the next 6 months. The new admins take over where the rubber meets the road.

Excellent post.

The more different eyes on the game at WIS, the better.

Love 3.0 or don't, seble the person came across a good guy throughout the beta process, and having two other experienced WISers at the helm of HD going forward is a really good scenario.

Wonders what Seble did at WIS-FOX all those years that Nothing was done to improve 2.0 (job hiring-firing, etc.)? I don't see an announcement for any of the other SIM games, so I assume he was not a major player in their development and maintenance.

I suppose with the Buy out of Fox-Sports employees due to severe financial reasons suddenly there will be more attention and more money spent on advertising? Sure...

I'll do some speculating too.

I doubt Seble knew for sure he was leaving way back in Feb when that announcement of cuts was made. It's likely he didn't put it for it and get it approved until maybe a couple months ago. Which is when 3.0 was gearing up. But the announcement of the overhaul of recruiting was made a long time before that so I don't think he went in to this thinking - eh, what the hell, I'll be gone soon. I'll give people the benefit of the doubt that they have more pride in themselves and their work than to have that type of thinking. I'm not going to presume to know what is going on in Seble's head throughout this entire process or why he decided to take the package and leave. Seems like a pretty nice deal to get 16 months of salary in a lump sum. Hard to pass that up.

And Tanja- that's a pretty valid point. Cut back on employees means they're not as financially successful in a lot of places than they once were. This could be part of a bigger thing to streamline everything with Fox Sports and focus their attention on the things that would make more money. What all those things are (good or bad), I have no idea. So I'd think that they're going to spend less time and attention on some things but it doesn't necessarily mean it's less for HD. Maybe they view these dynasty games as something they want to devote more of their resources towards vs something else that wasn't making money. Maybe not. But it's possible.

I don't see why you'd invest all the time and energy to make a big change like this if it wasn't part of the long term strategy for WIS. If they were going to ignore it and let it die then why do anything at all? Now, whether or not these changes are good or bad and will kill the game regardless of their 'attention' to it, remains to be seen.

Posted by vandydave on 9/27/2016 10:02:00 PM (view original):

Posted by zorzii on 9/27/2016 9:36:00 PM (view original):
The change is done and it's not perfect. We have two choices : we do not buy the product or we give them a chance to make it right, call them their own. In the meantime, doing what Tarv has been doing or Chapel or anybody that point out problems is constructive. After a while, if the game does not meet my expectations, it's my decision to quit. No need to drive new players away or old ones by constantly whining. The change is made...

Only two choices? Limiting choice is the privilege of those in power. What about the third choice of expressing displeasure, of campaigning for change, of not being silenced?

whining is also a term often used by those in power to dismiss those dissenting who are not in power. It can be dismissed because it can ultimately be ignored. Any owners driven away because of talk in the forums either can't or won't think for themselves.

lol, what a perfect post. Sometimes I believe vandydave and I are distantly related because our thought processes are so similar.

If it were 1 or 2 people making noise, I could understand dismissing it as whining, but there having been quite a few vocal with their displeasure, not to mention how many have already quit.

People say give the new guys a chance. Sure, but they need understand the current situation they are in which is a split fanbase. If noone dissents, there will be no real reason for feedback and we'll continue to get more of "this is what we're implementing, take it or leave it". With WIS track record over the last few years, I see no reason to put my faith in them.

Benis: I'll do some speculating too.

I doubt Seble knew for sure he was leaving way back in Feb when that announcement of cuts was made. It's likely he didn't put it for it and get it approved until maybe a couple months ago.

Nope. Employees had to decide by February 29th 2016 whether to accept the buyout or risk a possible layoff later.
"Today is the day (February 29th 2016) some Fox employees have to decide whether to take a company-offered buyout or gamble that they will not be part of an ensuing round of layoffs that insiders say is inevitable. A month ago, 21st Century Fox offered voluntary buyouts to long-term and older employees as a way to cut costs. Staffers who have been at Fox for at least 15 years or are 55 years and older were offered one month’s pay for every year of employment.."
He knew, had to already decided to take the buy out.

http://www.sportsbusinessdaily.com/Journal/Issues/2016/02/29/Media/Fox-cuts.aspx

The blueprints for 3.0 had already been laid down, they were announced over a year ago.

We can speculate all day about who knew what, and when. We weren't owed any of that info. We're customers, not shareholders. The old version of the game wasn't attracting and retaining enough customers. It had to be re-designed, both from a format and a gameplay standpoint. This was going to happen. It's good and generous of him to stay on long enough to "finish" the product.