Posted by Benis on 11/14/2016 9:54:00 AM (view original):

Posted by shoe3 on 11/14/2016 9:06:00 AM (view original):
People are used to having a pool of players that were not available to lower levels; leftovers, so to speak. So if, on the final day, you found yourself needing to try to formulate a plan C, you had a group of players just waiting around for you -and you could sign them in one cycle with a "$110 special" package of scholarship and promise to start. There are still D1 players waiting around for you now, but you have to find them via scouting, not just searching a comprehensive database. And no players are protected from anyone, so lots of those players have D2/3s invested in them. It's not so much that this scenario isn't "right" or realistic, it's just a significant difference that many coaches are struggling to adjust to.

You dont have to invest many early APs in a recruit to establish some interest, and keep most lower level teams looking elsewhere. But it's a tough sell to get people used to the idea that there is more than one strategy that can be successful, so you see a lot of these gameplay complaints coming from people convinced that they *need* to absolutely maximize their chances with their top targets, and any expenditure of attention on back-ups is wasteful.

This isnt my position personally. For me, its not adjusting my thinking because I only played D3 in 2.0 so ive never had the experience of grabbing leftover D1 guys when other plans fell through. my opinion is coming from what I think makes the most sense from a playability standpoint.

I understand your critique is a little different, and I mostly agree with you - that D3 should not be dominated by teams that pull in ranked prospects year in and year out. I suggest that there should be some risk to losing those players to juco, as with ineligibles. But I mostly think the "red light" concept puts the appropriate amount of risk into the situation for a D2/3. And there is always a risk that a D1 comes calling early enough, and wants the recruit bad enough, to put in the resources to swat you away. At D1 (as pkoopman) I have not found it hard at all to swat away D3s. But I line up backups much earlier than some, apparently.

Posted by MikeT23 on 11/13/2016 6:41:00 PM (view original):
I don't know.

HS star, who's been BMOC for 3-4 years, is getting all kinds of love from D3 U. D1 and D2 have completely ignored him. Then, when Kentucky loses a guy they thought they'd get, they call the kid on the last day and say "Yeah, you can be our 12th." Would said kid really go to Kentucky?

This would never happen in real life.
KY would never offer a d3 caliber player.
They would do this to a mid level school in a big 6 D1 conference and get him.

Posted by MikeT23 on 11/13/2016 6:41:00 PM (view original):
I don't know.

HS star, who's been BMOC for 3-4 years, is getting all kinds of love from D3 U. D1 and D2 have completely ignored him. Then, when Kentucky loses a guy they thought they'd get, they call the kid on the last day and say "Yeah, you can be our 12th." Would said kid really go to Kentucky?

It's a more interesting question if you make it more realistic. Full ride at Boston U. or pay your own way at D3 NYU? Full ride at DePaul or pay your own way at D3 Chicago?

D3 schools, it pains me to admit, would be credible winners in those scenarios.

Posted by stewdog on 11/14/2016 11:25:00 AM (view original):

Posted by MikeT23 on 11/13/2016 6:41:00 PM (view original):
I don't know.

HS star, who's been BMOC for 3-4 years, is getting all kinds of love from D3 U. D1 and D2 have completely ignored him. Then, when Kentucky loses a guy they thought they'd get, they call the kid on the last day and say "Yeah, you can be our 12th." Would said kid really go to Kentucky?

This would never happen in real life.
KY would never offer a d3 caliber player.
They would do this to a mid level school in a big 6 D1 conference and get him.

I think you misunderstood.

He's a low level D1 projection. D1/D2 are chasing bigger fish. Kentucky has a kid de-commit at the last minute and calls this kid immediately.

Nonetheless, I agree it wouldn't happen in real-life. Some D1 school would have at least made a call, sent a letter, tossed him a text. But, in this game, that doesn't happen. The D1 coaches chase their guys and, if they lose out, they feel they should get priority on any available player on the last cycle. "I'm Kentucky and you're East Rhode Island State. I get everyone I want even if I never contacted the player." Doesn't seem right.

Posted by Benis on 11/14/2016 10:18:00 AM (view original):

Posted by MikeT23 on 11/14/2016 9:55:00 AM (view original):
We have a similar situation in HBD. You may have the best offer for the entire FA period then get topped on the last cycle by a desperate owner. But he had to drop a ton of resources(payroll) on the last cycle and you get your money back. Then you can still sign FA, lower level, so you're not standing there holding the bag.

In the HD scenario suggested above, a team invests virtually nothing, you don't get your resources back and you get a walk-on. That's a terrible deal for D2/D3 teams. Might be incentive to move up as quickly as possible but you'd have slog thru that crap every season until you could move up.

But that goes back to the point that you should assess the risk. you can recruit D3 projected guys without the risk that kentucky will come and take him.

D3 has an entire pool of players to recruit from. if they dont like D1 "stealing" their players at the 11th hour then they shouldnt try recruiting them. IMHO.

Perhaps D1 owners shouldn't completely ignore players. Do you think a D1 projection wouldn't drop down in real life? Had dreams of Kentucky. Didn't happen. Don't you think he might go to some community college nearby and hope to impress the big boys this time around?

Posted by MikeT23 on 11/14/2016 11:54:00 AM (view original):

Posted by stewdog on 11/14/2016 11:25:00 AM (view original):

Posted by MikeT23 on 11/13/2016 6:41:00 PM (view original):
I don't know.

HS star, who's been BMOC for 3-4 years, is getting all kinds of love from D3 U. D1 and D2 have completely ignored him. Then, when Kentucky loses a guy they thought they'd get, they call the kid on the last day and say "Yeah, you can be our 12th." Would said kid really go to Kentucky?

This would never happen in real life.
KY would never offer a d3 caliber player.
They would do this to a mid level school in a big 6 D1 conference and get him.

I think you misunderstood.

He's a low level D1 projection. D1/D2 are chasing bigger fish. Kentucky has a kid de-commit at the last minute and calls this kid immediately.

Nonetheless, I agree it wouldn't happen in real-life. Some D1 school would have at least made a call, sent a letter, tossed him a text. But, in this game, that doesn't happen. The D1 coaches chase their guys and, if they lose out, they feel they should get priority on any available player on the last cycle. "I'm Kentucky and you're East Rhode Island State. I get everyone I want even if I never contacted the player." Doesn't seem right.

In the old game a kid with legit D1 ability would have gone to Juco instead of accepting a D3 offer. The old system made a lot more sense.

I don't necessarily disagree. D1 probably shouldn't fall to D3. But if D1 and D2 ignore him, what's he going to do? Get a job as a Wal-Mart greeter and give up hoops forever?

Anyway, it's a problem in internet Dynasty games. I think it would be stupid to go all in on low level D1 players as a D3 but I'm sure someone will. And, if he fails, he gets another job elsewhere and someone else can clean up the mess. I honestly think the answer is those who fall to a lower level are prime to move up after one season.

Or maybe a "Late offer" day. After recruiting, any team with resource and an open scholarship can sign any kid within 100 miles of their school. D1 goes 1st, D2 the next day and D3 last. Players will be picked over by D1 and D2 before D3 has a shot.

Posted by MikeT23 on 11/14/2016 12:09:00 PM (view original):
I don't necessarily disagree. D1 probably shouldn't fall to D3. But if D1 and D2 ignore him, what's he going to do? Get a job as a Wal-Mart greeter and give up hoops forever?

Anyway, it's a problem in internet Dynasty games. I think it would be stupid to go all in on low level D1 players as a D3 but I'm sure someone will. And, if he fails, he gets another job elsewhere and someone else can clean up the mess. I honestly think the answer is those who fall to a lower level are prime to move up after one season.

If D1 and D2 ignored him in the past, something logical would happen. (Juco.) It is regrettable WIS will never admit changing that logic was a mistake.

Real life doesn't always translate well to simplay. This looks like one of those times.

Posted by MikeT23 on 11/14/2016 12:19:00 PM (view original):
Real life doesn't always translate well to simplay. This looks like one of those times.

I agree completely.

Posted by kcsundevil on 11/14/2016 12:14:00 PM (view original):

Posted by MikeT23 on 11/14/2016 12:09:00 PM (view original):
I don't necessarily disagree. D1 probably shouldn't fall to D3. But if D1 and D2 ignore him, what's he going to do? Get a job as a Wal-Mart greeter and give up hoops forever?

Anyway, it's a problem in internet Dynasty games. I think it would be stupid to go all in on low level D1 players as a D3 but I'm sure someone will. And, if he fails, he gets another job elsewhere and someone else can clean up the mess. I honestly think the answer is those who fall to a lower level are prime to move up after one season.

If D1 and D2 ignored him in the past, something logical would happen. (Juco.) It is regrettable WIS will never admit changing that logic was a mistake.

It's plenty logical for that kid to pick a lower level, human coached team over juco. In real life, and for gameplay in HD. I could go along with those kids transferring up, or more of them going juco, if that's what HD wants to do for the sake of realism. Not sure it makes D2/3 a better game though, not in the same way EEs make D1 a better game.

Posted by pkoopman on 11/14/2016 12:28:00 PM (view original):

Posted by kcsundevil on 11/14/2016 12:14:00 PM (view original):

Posted by MikeT23 on 11/14/2016 12:09:00 PM (view original):
I don't necessarily disagree. D1 probably shouldn't fall to D3. But if D1 and D2 ignore him, what's he going to do? Get a job as a Wal-Mart greeter and give up hoops forever?

Anyway, it's a problem in internet Dynasty games. I think it would be stupid to go all in on low level D1 players as a D3 but I'm sure someone will. And, if he fails, he gets another job elsewhere and someone else can clean up the mess. I honestly think the answer is those who fall to a lower level are prime to move up after one season.

If D1 and D2 ignored him in the past, something logical would happen. (Juco.) It is regrettable WIS will never admit changing that logic was a mistake.

It's plenty logical for that kid to pick a lower level, human coached team over juco. In real life, and for gameplay in HD. I could go along with those kids transferring up, or more of them going juco, if that's what HD wants to do for the sake of realism. Not sure it makes D2/3 a better game though, not in the same way EEs make D1 a better game.

The old system had been simple, easily understood, and non-controversial for 11 years.

I read a lot of posts before posting in this forum. One of the gripes about EE came from a guy who said he won 7 of the last 12 Natties(or something like that) and he had 6 EE. Knowing little about this version of HD, I still thought "Damn. That's a lot of success and a lot of good players." Nonetheless, I also thought "Didn't KY have 6-7 players declare early? Calipari didn't complain because he expected it." I don't know how the EE thing works but it shouldn't surprise really successful coaches with a lot of good players.

That's how I'd feel as a D3 who was fortunate enough to land a D1. "Enjoy him now cuz he ain't staying in this backwater town long."

Posted by boballog on 11/13/2016 9:16:00 PM (view original):

Posted by reinsel on 11/12/2016 6:15:00 PM (view original):
If the D1 puts in enough effort to offer a scholarship and does, no way should a D3 school win. Ever.

I'm at Army (in the Patriot) lost a recruit to a D3. I got to very high on the cycle that the player signed with the D3 team, Haverford, I think. I would have been on him earlier, but I only discovered him as I was scouting looking for good players that fell through the D1, better than Patriot (Army) cracks. What's stupid and totally unreal is that I had promised PT. What person would turn down PT at a D1 for a D3?

except you don't ahve to put in ANY effort to offer on the last day ! The scholarship is automatically opened to all D1 teams then. That is why I said, IF he didn't put on any effort except the offer ON THE LAST DAY .. I have problem with it.