Why So Many Open D1 Elites? Topic

The title is the first question.

The second question is how long and how much success (rough estimates) does it take to qualify for an elite job at the D1 level.

The third question is why is taking over a D1 job mid-season so ******* difficult in recruiting? I can't compete with D3 schools. AS A B+ PRESTIGE, I CANT ******* COMPETE WITH SCHOOLS LIKE MUSKINGUM AND OGLETHORPE AND ALBION AND AMHERST? THE **** IS THAT ABOUT? This has nearly been enough to drive me back to D2 before I've coached a game at D1.

Are D2 and D3 inherently more fun, to most people?
12/12/2016 11:46 PM
Well, 3.0 is the reason. For all the questions really.

For example for what it took for me to get to Big6 -
Rupp : 6 seasons at University of NH. 3 1st round NT's, 1 PI3, 125 wins (20.8 wins/season) went from D to B-. Got me to Michigan, not elite, but have chosen to stay here vs move to A prestige teams
Smith: 9 seasons at University of NH. 4 1st round NT's, 1 PI1, 173 wins (19.2 wins/season) went from D- to B-. Got me to Georgia, at that point couldn't get into higher Big 6 teams, no openings.
Crum: 5 seasons at Harvard. 2 1st round NT's, 2 2nd round NT's, 99 wins (19.8 wins/season) went from D to B-. Got me to Cincinnati, my first (and currently only) A+ baseline prestige team.
Baylor: 11 seasons at D2 W Alabama. 4 1st round NT's, 3 2nd round NT's, S16, E8, NT runner up, 1 PI1. 241 wins (21.9 wins/season) went from B- to A. Got me to Baylor, where I got my brains beat in. Should have stayed in Heartland D2.

Low D1 was always a grind, but a very good 4-5 years (and an available open Big6 team) can get you moved up. Elite programs were always at the whim of openings, which there's obviously more of now. Sweet spot is getting to B- or higher with some 2nd round plus NT's. Of course that means taking over a Big6 rebuild. I've not seen anyone move to a current A or higher elite team unless they moved from a current A or higher Big6 team.

I was drawn to D1 for more money for recruiting (largely removed now, you can recruit effectively at D2 better now I think than before) and knowing the actual schools. I think it will shake out over the course of the next 3-4 seasons, but it's the same answer it's always been - win and win in the NT.
12/13/2016 5:15 AM
AB D1 is not user friendly. It sure works better at D2, D3. First, at D1, if you reserve a team, you do not draft during the first season. If you change job, there is not a lot left in the second session and opening up options takes time so it makes it hard to catch up in time even against D2 and D3 teams.! So a rebuild is now 5 years instead of 4 and not as efficient because of the way scouting and recruiting are. You need to carefully choose the location of your low D1 team... Too much competition will prevent you from getting capable players.

As for so many big teams available, I think long time coaches do not like the update.
12/13/2016 7:36 AM
This update really punishes high D1 schools is why...
no recruiting advantages though most high D1's are nearer other schools with more recruiting competition.
And the early entry thing is absolutely kills success since they are virtually impossible to replace.
When prairie view A&M has the same cash as Texas and high point and North Carolina A&T regularly beat Duke, UNC, and Kansas for recruits, competitive people realize this game is no longer about building a hoops dynasty and leave because it's about giving everyone a chance at the participation trophy,

High D2 & d3 are sustainable but this update was intended to go after high D1 and level the playing field and the most competitive that don't like coin flips & socialism in recruiting, and punishment for signing top players are leaving. Pretty simple.
12/13/2016 7:51 AM
Posted by stewdog on 12/13/2016 7:51:00 AM (view original):
This update really punishes high D1 schools is why...
no recruiting advantages though most high D1's are nearer other schools with more recruiting competition.
And the early entry thing is absolutely kills success since they are virtually impossible to replace.
When prairie view A&M has the same cash as Texas and high point and North Carolina A&T regularly beat Duke, UNC, and Kansas for recruits, competitive people realize this game is no longer about building a hoops dynasty and leave because it's about giving everyone a chance at the participation trophy,

High D2 & d3 are sustainable but this update was intended to go after high D1 and level the playing field and the most competitive that don't like coin flips & socialism in recruiting, and punishment for signing top players are leaving. Pretty simple.
I think prestige do give an edge though Stewdog. A+ with same effort as B+, if the wants to play preference not involved results in a VH to Moderate result. If it's involved, It goes to VH to H. And big six have strong conferences which is something important in recruiting. The problem is more of the system. If you have 4 schollies, you will get 3 players and a benchwarmer because of lack of resources. If you lose rolls or make the mistake of battling for an international, you could lose the roll and not even get a player you like. One joke was : a one star player went to UDSciences over starting at Penn State, Big 10. I had lost an all-in roll, a smart recruiting decision, and I was trying to make up for it by putting all ap on that player... they need to fix these problems alsi. If a D1 comes knocking, even if it's a SIM, a D1 player should be going there. The D2 games use to be 65 ath, 65 def, avg for top teams, some going a bit over on heavy sr classes. Now, it's 70+ to be able to go deep. It certainly because they get players they never were able to get before. I even saw a D2 team at 80 def avg...
12/13/2016 8:04 AM
Posted by stewdog on 12/13/2016 7:51:00 AM (view original):
This update really punishes high D1 schools is why...
no recruiting advantages though most high D1's are nearer other schools with more recruiting competition.
And the early entry thing is absolutely kills success since they are virtually impossible to replace.
When prairie view A&M has the same cash as Texas and high point and North Carolina A&T regularly beat Duke, UNC, and Kansas for recruits, competitive people realize this game is no longer about building a hoops dynasty and leave because it's about giving everyone a chance at the participation trophy,

High D2 & d3 are sustainable but this update was intended to go after high D1 and level the playing field and the most competitive that don't like coin flips & socialism in recruiting, and punishment for signing top players are leaving. Pretty simple.
I agree with Stewdog more than Zorzi on this thread. But I thought this update was more about getting people to go divison 1 low or mid major with the thought of one day going to the national championship with a mid major school? I also thought it favors division 1 schools more with the recruting cash and scouting money that pull downs are no longer a possibility with the "coin flip" heavily favor towards division 1 team.
12/13/2016 8:07 AM
Posted by stewdog on 12/13/2016 7:51:00 AM (view original):
This update really punishes high D1 schools is why...
no recruiting advantages though most high D1's are nearer other schools with more recruiting competition.
And the early entry thing is absolutely kills success since they are virtually impossible to replace.
When prairie view A&M has the same cash as Texas and high point and North Carolina A&T regularly beat Duke, UNC, and Kansas for recruits, competitive people realize this game is no longer about building a hoops dynasty and leave because it's about giving everyone a chance at the participation trophy,

High D2 & d3 are sustainable but this update was intended to go after high D1 and level the playing field and the most competitive that don't like coin flips & socialism in recruiting, and punishment for signing top players are leaving. Pretty simple.
whoa nellie - lets not badmouth participation trophies - I coached kids rec league hoops for many seasons!
12/13/2016 8:08 AM
Changing jobs suck. I just moved from D3 to D2 in Tark and while I made a couple bonehead moves, it still set you behind other schools. Even as a A prestige D2 team, I couldn't compete with D3 because you simply don't have a lot of time to unlock actions. If he's an early or EOP1 D2 guy, he will sign immediately with a D3 on the first cycle of the 2nd session. Nothing you can do about that. Then going for D1 guys who are late signers, you will already be behind other D2 and D1 teams. Not to mention you're at the mercy of what the previous coach recruited.

I'm not going to complain for days and days about it but it is going to take longer for a rebuild and a big negative regarding the 2 periods in my opinion.

12/13/2016 8:30 AM
I have not done D2 or D3 for quite some time, so take those comments with a grain of salt.
I could be wrong there.

But since this thread is about high D1, my comments there stand. There is no way a big 10 school should lose a recruit to a D2 school, Period, as zorzi points out. The prestige advantage is minimal when prairie view A&M and Texas have the same resources. And only some recruits like a "strong conference." Some player preferences don't care about coach loyalty or strong conference & want a rebuild... so Kansas is handicapped against a low prestige actually sometimes.

I've played high D1 & been competitive there for most of my career here. I talk with the other high D1 coaches on the message and conference chat boards and have heard many say goodbye and why. This and many don't have the time to put into it any more are why people are leaving. This is not an argument/ I wanna be right thread... this is simply the answer I have observed a source a high D1 guy and why I will leave when my free seasons are done,

To me the bottom line is this: the name of the game is hoops dynasty, and 3.0 wants to destroy dynasties In favor of equity and everyone having the same chance. It ignores the hard work put in from the past and actually punishes longevity of coaching dynasties. This is a problem, it is unlike reality, and they ought to change the name of the game from "Hoops Dynasty" if the rules are designed to hurt dynasties rather than encourage them.
12/13/2016 8:58 AM
Dynasty is nice. It's not a good sell to users late to the party. HD is not like HBD. HBD gives everyone the same resources. Players decline not stay the same or continually improve until they're gone. If you're lucky, you can have good 8-10 season run in HBD. Having the same 10 schools go 32-2 or 33-1 season after season is NOT a good product for sale to the general public. Sucks if you're one of those ten but the game is more marketable now.
12/13/2016 10:34 AM (edited)
In my opinion, there s one solution to this: take a team with a combined 3 seniors/ rescindable players and hope simmy signed a good one in the first session. Getting two OK players is doable in the second session.
12/13/2016 10:31 AM
Guess some people have never heard of a hyperbole.
12/13/2016 10:44 AM
So I have no insight onto the EE issue, but on the whole "D1 recruits should chose D1 every time" thing, that's just not true in real life.
I attended a D3 school, and most of our baseball team had low D1 offers and chose to go D3. Our football team had a similar thing. Our basketball team was pretty bad, but still, im sure there are cases where that exists.

if you are a lower end D1 prospect, you probably arent going pro. So there is more to a school than just the division that the team plays in. You may chose a different school because of the academics. Or maybe you wanted to be a focal point of a successful D3 team instead of a role player on a bad D1 team.

Would a 5 star recruit ever choose to attend Oglethorpe over Duke? almost certainly not. but would an unranked D1 prospect choose being a star at Amherst over being a role player at McNeese State? sure, theres a chance.
12/13/2016 1:11 PM
See Duncan Robinson. Robinson was at the best D-III academic school in the country (Williams College) and led Williams to the 2014 national title game, scoring 17 PPG and winning a national freshman of the year award.

Then the D-I coaches started calling and his D-III coach left for a better job. BING! He transferred to a .500 Michigan team, sat out a year, and is now contributing at 7.8 PPG and 19 mpg for the Wolverines. And that's down from last year when he scored 11.2 PPG.

This is about Elite Big6 programs. And it is broken. Badly. I haven't given up hope that it will be fixed. But it needs to be. Soon.
12/13/2016 2:27 PM
Posted by MikeT23 on 12/13/2016 10:34:00 AM (view original):
Dynasty is nice. It's not a good sell to users late to the party. HD is not like HBD. HBD gives everyone the same resources. Players decline not stay the same or continually improve until they're gone. If you're lucky, you can have good 8-10 season run in HBD. Having the same 10 schools go 32-2 or 33-1 season after season is NOT a good product for sale to the general public. Sucks if you're one of those ten but the game is more marketable now.
This. I've seen a lot of frustrating one-off stories about losing recruits people "shouldn't have" lost, but it sounds like a lot of people don't like how much harder it has gotten to coast on a team's prestige. I'll be interested to see if any coaches are able to consistently succeed as a mid-major / low D1 team with the new system - it'll definitely be much more doable than before.
12/13/2016 2:32 PM
1234 Next ▸
Why So Many Open D1 Elites? Topic

Search Criteria

Terms of Use Customer Support Privacy Statement

© 1999-2024 WhatIfSports.com, Inc. All rights reserved. WhatIfSports is a trademark of WhatIfSports.com, Inc. SimLeague, SimMatchup and iSimNow are trademarks or registered trademarks of Electronic Arts, Inc. Used under license. The names of actual companies and products mentioned herein may be the trademarks of their respective owners.