Except, if you search "sim sports", WifS is right there on the front page.

Does anyone believe, if you're interested in this type of game, that it's hard to find?
1/15/2017 8:18 PM
I feel like there's an untapped, significant amount of sports fans that wouldn't necessarily look to seek a site like this, but if it FOUND THEM, I think they would/could/might stick around. There's so/too much focus on how the sims equate/play out real life.

The "they'll stumble upon it, anyway" argument is a pretty weak one and a bit of a losers mentality.

If I got that multimedia fantasy writer job on here, I would turn this site around.
1/15/2017 8:25 PM
Posted by colonels19 on 1/15/2017 8:25:00 PM (view original):
I feel like there's an untapped, significant amount of sports fans that wouldn't necessarily look to seek a site like this, but if it FOUND THEM, I think they would/could/might stick around. There's so/too much focus on how the sims equate/play out real life.

The "they'll stumble upon it, anyway" argument is a pretty weak one and a bit of a losers mentality.

If I got that multimedia fantasy writer job on here, I would turn this site around.
+100
1/15/2017 8:38 PM
Posted by MikeT23 on 1/15/2017 8:18:00 PM (view original):
Except, if you search "sim sports", WifS is right there on the front page.

Does anyone believe, if you're interested in this type of game, that it's hard to find?
Why are you acting like you don't have the slightest inkling as to how advertising works? Do you think Best Buy or other brands that do e-commerce just think, "Well jeez man, if they just Google it then they'll find it. Why spend the cash"? With the size of WIS's customer base and the nature of the product, they have much more to gain out of digital ads than those big brands, and wouldn't need to spend very much to see a difference.
1/15/2017 11:22 PM
Posted by mbriese on 1/15/2017 11:22:00 PM (view original):
Posted by MikeT23 on 1/15/2017 8:18:00 PM (view original):
Except, if you search "sim sports", WifS is right there on the front page.

Does anyone believe, if you're interested in this type of game, that it's hard to find?
Why are you acting like you don't have the slightest inkling as to how advertising works? Do you think Best Buy or other brands that do e-commerce just think, "Well jeez man, if they just Google it then they'll find it. Why spend the cash"? With the size of WIS's customer base and the nature of the product, they have much more to gain out of digital ads than those big brands, and wouldn't need to spend very much to see a difference.
+1
1/15/2017 11:23 PM
Posted by MikeT23 on 1/15/2017 8:18:00 PM (view original):
Except, if you search "sim sports", WifS is right there on the front page.

Does anyone believe, if you're interested in this type of game, that it's hard to find?
I know you're saying that the proposed market would be small even if WIS did advertise, but I think most would disagree with you, up to a point. I doubt the market is anywhere near the size of say fantasy sports, or even an ncaa/madden type of population. The thing is I'd be willing to bet there is a decent sized portion of the fantasy sports community who would be interested in something like this. The fantasy sports community is projected to be around 60 million people an that number is climbing yearly. If 5% of that population who was not previously aware of WIS games now learn about it through advertisements, you now have 3 million people who are now aware of it. If only 5% of that 3 million take an interest, that's potentially 150k new users. Let's assume only 10% of those stay, you now have 15k long term users.

The advertising would not be much if they streamed it in their sports ticker, maybe occasionally provided a bump for it in one or two of their fantasy shows, advertise it on the front page of FOXsports.com etc. All of these things are small hits that could significantly create a long term bump. These are small numbers I provided, but there is a potential there to grow.
1/16/2017 3:12 AM
OK, let's try it this way. They gave away FREE teams. When it came time to renew at a measly $12, the world went from 345 to 103. That's 242 users who SHOULD have been interested in this type of game. Why does anyone think there's some big(or medium or even small) untapped market out there that would love something like this but just hasn't bothered to look?
1/16/2017 7:03 AM
Posted by MikeT23 on 1/16/2017 7:03:00 AM (view original):
OK, let's try it this way. They gave away FREE teams. When it came time to renew at a measly $12, the world went from 345 to 103. That's 242 users who SHOULD have been interested in this type of game. Why does anyone think there's some big(or medium or even small) untapped market out there that would love something like this but just hasn't bothered to look?
I never bothered to look for this game and heard about it through word of mouth. I have 4 teams now.

All my friends that I've gotten to join never heard of it either and never bothered to look.

Some people will find it by looking. Others need to be informed first. You don't know what you don't know.
1/16/2017 7:08 AM
I believe such folks exist in reasonable numbers because that was me before I stumbled upon WIS by happenstance, reading a reference to it in something Bill Simmons wrote. Never looked for such a game.
1/16/2017 7:09 AM
I believe you're both missing the point. 242 users, ex-HD players maybe, maybe just WifS members or maybe FOX fantasy guys, played(or at least signed up) one season and didn't renew. That does not scream "THIS IS A GREAT GAME THAT PEOPLE DON'T KNOW ABOUT!!!!" It mutters "Well, I guess it's not for everyone."
1/16/2017 8:36 AM
In my opinion, they're doing it wrong. I don't like the Free season thing. Even if they are active participants, the price jumps up from Free to 12 bucks. I'd rather see some multiple season price reduction. 1st season is 5 bucks, 2nd season is 5 bucks and maybe even a 3rd season is 5 bucks. Then, once they're hooked, the price increases to $12.

But what you're saying is basically what Poncho is saying. Since your conversion rate is low, you need to get a higher initial user quantity. 242 is a SMALL number. If that number was 2,000 then your conversion rate only needs to be like 10% to have a big impact.
1/16/2017 9:10 AM
My guess is they gave out 2000+. 242 in one world. Other worlds have seen similar increase/decline.

The free season is to get people to try the product. I'm not a big fan of it for HBD, because the season is 162 and abandoned teams wreck a world, but I think it's OK for HD. "Come on in, take a look around, we hope you like what you see." I guess part of the problem is that you're destined to lose for more than a couple of seasons. 1st season is players you didn't recruit. 2nd season is players you recruited but probably poorly. 3rd season hopefully you're catching on. 4th season is developing the good players you recruited. 5th season is your shot. Playing for 8 months before you can realistically win(assuming complete n00bdom when starting) isn't all that enticing. After all you busted my chops for scheduling but I don't like opening up to a loss every day. I'm sure I'm not alone in that regard.

1/16/2017 9:23 AM
Posted by MikeT23 on 1/16/2017 9:23:00 AM (view original):
My guess is they gave out 2000+. 242 in one world. Other worlds have seen similar increase/decline.

The free season is to get people to try the product. I'm not a big fan of it for HBD, because the season is 162 and abandoned teams wreck a world, but I think it's OK for HD. "Come on in, take a look around, we hope you like what you see." I guess part of the problem is that you're destined to lose for more than a couple of seasons. 1st season is players you didn't recruit. 2nd season is players you recruited but probably poorly. 3rd season hopefully you're catching on. 4th season is developing the good players you recruited. 5th season is your shot. Playing for 8 months before you can realistically win(assuming complete n00bdom when starting) isn't all that enticing. After all you busted my chops for scheduling but I don't like opening up to a loss every day. I'm sure I'm not alone in that regard.

I don't want to go on too much of a tangent... but I was busting your chops because I think you could have scheduled in a way that you got the same number of wins but wouldn't need to sacrifice RPI to do it. But I was also trying to help you with some info on how to do it.

But anyway, yes you're basically right about the sequence of events and I agree. Which is why I think a reduced price for multiple seasons would be better.

"This game is cool but my team sucks and I don't really want to plunk down $12 to get my *** kicked again".

Basically keep dangling a carrot in front of the user until they start becoming successful at the game and having fun with it and then they're paying full price.
1/16/2017 9:36 AM
Posted by MikeT23 on 1/16/2017 8:36:00 AM (view original):
I believe you're both missing the point. 242 users, ex-HD players maybe, maybe just WifS members or maybe FOX fantasy guys, played(or at least signed up) one season and didn't renew. That does not scream "THIS IS A GREAT GAME THAT PEOPLE DON'T KNOW ABOUT!!!!" It mutters "Well, I guess it's not for everyone."
We both "came back" to HD around the same time and have since stuck around. This game isn't for everyone, but it's clearly for some people. It sounds like you're assuming that out of all of the possible people that could have found HD, the only ones that would actually stick around have already found the site - is that accurate? If so, 'Shut up Donny. You're out of your element, Donny'.

Nobody's arguing that this is some gold mine that everyone would love if they only heard about it - we're just saying that there is a market for it, and based on the advertising efforts of WIS thus far it doesn't seem like that market has been fully tapped.
1/16/2017 10:05 AM
Posted by MikeT23 on 1/16/2017 8:36:00 AM (view original):
I believe you're both missing the point. 242 users, ex-HD players maybe, maybe just WifS members or maybe FOX fantasy guys, played(or at least signed up) one season and didn't renew. That does not scream "THIS IS A GREAT GAME THAT PEOPLE DON'T KNOW ABOUT!!!!" It mutters "Well, I guess it's not for everyone."
I agree fully it is not for everyone - thats obvious

But IF - and thats an IF - there are lots of people like me who dont know about it and if some fraction WOULD like it, then getting the word out would help

You're missing the point - not for everyone isnt a reason not to market. The right question is whether there are lots of folks who might like it who dont know about it.
1/16/2017 10:20 AM
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