Lost this game, and I'm trying to understand why so I can learn from it. Arizona has only 9 scholly players and played uptempo press against me (OSU). In fact, they only really played 8 guys in this game. Their team STA isn't great, but their starting SG, SF and PF are all above 90 STA. I played normal tempo M2M with 11 guys, and started +3 to counteract their reliance on 3PT. And sure enough, I held them to 10/35 on threes. But somehow I was in more fatigue trouble than they were, and lost by 7. Turned the ball over a ton, even compared to other games I've played vs FCP teams.

Should I have gone uptempo? Something else I missed?

In hindsight, you probably should have gone slow down. That way he would be fatigued and you wouldn't.

Posted by Trentonjoe on 2/10/2017 9:32:00 AM (view original):
In hindsight, you probably should have gone slow down. That way he would be fatigued and you wouldn't.

Hmmm, that's really interesting. I'll have to mull that one over more. But assuming you're right that slowdown would've improved my chances, that raises the question - when should I ever go uptempo? If it's not vs an 8-man team playing uptempo FCP, when would uptempo ever make sense?

I used to play a lot of uptempo, and I've basically stopped because it's hard to find a scenario where the upside outweighs the downside of more randomness and variation. Especially if I'm the better team on paper.

I've been told uptempo doesn't mean your team runs quickly down the court. That it means they take shots quicker. IOW, instead of 4 passes in their set offense, they might make 1 or 2.

Is the correct?

Use it when you aren't playing a press.

My Flex/FCP teams runs into the same problem. When I play other press teams I run into fatigue problems.

Posted by MikeT23 on 2/10/2017 9:43:00 AM (view original):
I've been told uptempo doesn't mean your team runs quickly down the court. That it means they take shots quicker. IOW, instead of 4 passes in their set offense, they might make 1 or 2.

Is the correct?

Yes.

OK, to follow up, if I'm the better shooting team, I play uptempo because I want more shots. Unless they're far superior rebounders.

Is this line of thinking correct?

First Muskies is a solid coach. Going +3 and +5 got you a low FG%, from 3pts but he did grab 17 offensive rebonds. And converted for 19 second chances points. He is not that good from 3pts range so let him die with these shots. Put your best defenders against his shooters to start. I'd go +1 max. And I would not have my settings at change defense whenever.. Cause you were winning at +3, then it puts you at +5 at the start of the second half. I change when I lose but I hate going +3 because against a shooting team, I will be put to +5 if I lose in the first half so normally I'd go never change if I go +3... And it was reverse life, he went uptempo with no depth... I would of gone uptempo... against him.

I think uptempo gets him in foul trouble and you more on the line.. You have a depth and ath advantage. But you lost on your +5 setting for sure.

Playing uptempo against this team isn't a terrible idea, but it is a gamble. You're not increasing his fatigue, per se, by playing uptempo, but you are increasing the number of possessions, and potential number of foul opportunities. If you're confident it will get your opponent in foul trouble, uptempo can be a good strategy, even (especially) against the press. However, if you don't actually get him in foul trouble, either because of luck, or that his defense is just that good, then you're really just hurting yourself. You fatigue faster, turn it over more, and unless your team is specifically built to go uptempo, with excellent ball-handling, fast athletes, your fg% will likely suffer as well.

Disagree with Shoe and Trenton. Definitely go uptempo to tire out his players.
Uptempo = more possessions = more possessions between stoppages = fatigue for a short bench

I go uptempo in your situation 75% of the time here and normal 25% based on those rosters.
TOs hurt you more than anything else.

Posted by mullycj on 2/10/2017 11:20:00 AM (view original):
Disagree with Shoe and Trenton. Definitely go uptempo to tire out his players.
Uptempo = more possessions = more possessions between stoppages = fatigue for a short bench

I go uptempo in your situation 75% of the time here and normal 25% based on those rosters.
TOs hurt you more than anything else.

Uptempo tires your offense more than your opponent's defense. Like I said, it can work, if you get him in foul trouble. And that almost did shake out in the game cited here, 2 guys fouled out and another was close. But if you miss, you're just left with the consequences.

As you say, turnovers hurt him, and that's a consequence of playing uptempo, especially against a good press (Arizona isn't a great team, but the ath-spd-def of the top 8 is good enough to be considered a good D1 press, I think). He also shot 44% where his season average was over 50%, yet another (IMO) consequence of playing uptempo. I suspect normal tempo results in a better sim for him in this game most of the time.

With my fastbreak team, I default to uptempo, because my team is built for it (BH+spd+ath), and because my FB team is better than most of its opponents, so more possessions works out in my favor (And of course the fouls). With my other teams, I don't typically play uptempo to go for the fatigue cascade, unless I'm pretty sure I'll hit it.

The problem isn't the uptempo, it is the +5.

Totally agree about the +5. I changed the "change defense" to "whenever" for a specific game a while back, and forgot to turn it off. Clearly, going +5 was bad.

Interesting perspectives on uptempo. Seems like I would've been walking a tightrope matching his uptempo - hope I get enough of his guys to foul out before incurring the full wrath of his FCP.

Posted by skinndogg on 2/10/2017 2:41:00 PM (view original):
The problem isn't the uptempo, it is the +5.

I disagree. He started at +3. The +5 was a sim halftime adjustment, because of how many perimeter shots his opponent was taking. The positioning isn't a big deal by itself, IMO. It created a ton of perimeter misses and turnovers, which is what +positioning is supposed to do. Sure there were a lot of second chance points, but that's what happens when there are tons of misses. OSU got their share of rebounds,despite the positioning. If OSU shoots as well as they normally do, and doesn't commit twice as many turnovers as they normally do, they most likely win. Changing the defensive positioning likely just changes where the opponent scores from.