All Forums > SimLeague Basketball > Theme Leagues > ODL-40 Team Compositions
8/21/2012 4:57 PM
Yeah, great evals Malone. You may like my team more than I do though.
J.R. Smith was a risk that I lost out on. At the time, I was looking at Leandro Barbosa and Michael Redd at SG. Barbosa is my favorite sim player that never gets drafted, 56 EFG, 190 3s, PG/SG 100%, 40+ def, 4 usage points. In OLs, he has been a beast for me and I really wanted to use him. I figured that Smith gets drafted as a back-up on a regular occasion, so I could take him and grab Barbosa later.
Didn't work out. Lost out on Redd too, had to settle with Dehere at SG.


8/27/2012 2:44 PM
Posted by malone9975 on 8/19/2012 11:42:00 PM (view original):
I am going to compare these teams to television shows just to put a different spin on the whole eval process

1) 
banditone Moses Malone, Mike Mitchell, Stephen Curry, Sleepy Floyd, John Beasley, Dale Ellis, Detlef Schrempf
This is Perfect Strangers.  I hated that show  There is nothing here that makes sense.  Each player does something, but then in turn screws you in two ways it seems.  Moses rebounds and gives it up (turnovers) like a drunk girl on a reality show.  Mitchell in the second round is like picking a sword first for nuclear war.  Curry is early, but solid with efg and ok with assists, Sleepy is a weird pick, but can get you assists and scoring, but this means you are going to have a 1-5 lineup of Floyd, Curry, Mitchell, Beasley, Malone.  Not enough rebounding for this league, weird usage balance, and Beasley is going to likely backup Moses.  This isn't your best effort.

2) jethroeg - Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, Connie HawkinsReggie Miller, Kevin Porter, Bob Dandridge
This is Heroes.  It started really good and ended strangely, but salary can be the great equalizer.  I usually look to see where you are in order to see how many free wins I am going to get.  I think some others in this league may do the same thing.  Not this season.  Porter is going to dish the rock, but turnover and foul a bit (without much D, but is pretty efficient), Miller will stroke the three like a champ, Hawkins at the 3 is sweet, and I don't care for Dandridge at the 4 (and if you switch them I may like this team less), and Cap at the 5.  This team will likely miss the playoffs due to rebounding and getting killed by strong PG's and SG's in this league. This is a move in a much better direction than some of your past efforts....onward and upward (or is it save the cheerleader, save the world).

3) ljemd - Dennis Rodman, Shawn KempMitch Richmond, Tree RollinsJoakim Noah, Derek Harper, Steven Blake
This is M*A*S*H.  A great show with a fatal flaw (especially when they let Alan Alda behind the camera).  I am not one to cast stones, but how many extra minutes are you going to need at the 4 and 5?  Rollins and Kemp are foul monsters even though they are going to be sweet for blocks and boards.  Noah is a nice addition with those two hack machines, and with those two adding in Rodman is only going to make Harper and Richmond that much more deadly.  Plus Kemp makes it to where teams won't go +3 on you.  I like what you have here.

4) coachcroft LeBron James, Horace Grant, Manu Ginobili, Rajon Rondo, Alonzo Mourning, Shane BattierPaul Silas
This is like Friends.  Too many people doing too many things, and they are all taking time away from Chandler.  LeBron and Mourning will battle each other for shots, and then when Manu comes in the game we are going to need another basketball.  Rondo, Grant, and Battier are good additions to this team, but to maximize this team Bron at PG, Battier at SG, Grant at SF, Zo at C and something looking like rebounding at PF would be much, much better.  You need to focus your team around filling holes, and I think you got a little drunk with power when picking Manu.  Clifford Ray or Bynum (even Biedrins) would have better fit the team. Scoring is important, but secondary to rebounding.  When you have LeBron you need to have things that accent him, not take away.

5) bluenote75 W. Chamberlain, Ryan AndersonAndrew Bynum, Andre IguodalaKenneth Faried, Andris Biedrins, K. Hinrich
This is like Tilt.  It was a show on ESPN about Poker.  ESPN in the height of the Moneymaker-mania from the WSOP put this series together.  Good acting, bad writing.  That is this team...I can't understand how hard it is to build with Wilt.  In this scenario Wilt will be not be played by the Tier 4 usage version that could at any point go 25/20/12/10 with the version that will not show the efficiency of the other but go for 50/20 a couple of times.  I don't know that I see enough assists here to maximize this team.  I can't see enough at the 1 and 2 to make this team a winner.

6) tricky24 - Michael Jordan, Tom BoerwinkleGary Payton, Clifford RaySamuel Dalembert, Kyle Korver, Glen Rice
This is Happy Days.  This team jumped the shark after the fourth pick...Dalembert wasn't the right fit.  This is where you get a rebounding SF that can shoot the three.  MJ
 and GP are Fonzie and Richie at the peak.  Boerwinkle and Ray are perfect with this team too.  Big Sam is there to help with the minutes Boerwinkle won't play, but Korver and Rice can't really rebound or do anything but score.  Rice can't guard a paper bag, but it is ok.  Both of them are good as SG, but I am not thrilled seeing them at SF...still a good shot at the playoffs

7) natenoy Dwight Howard, Paul PierceKobe Bryant, Darrell WalkerDamon Jones, Dennis Scott, Kevin Willis
This is like Misfits of Science.  This was a show I loved as a kid for the first two or three episodes....then SUCKSVILLE.  Allow me to explain the issues Nate.  You started with Howard and Pierce.  Very nice.  Then Kobe, Walker, and Jones.  I think you got power drunk when you saw Kobe there in the third.  Let me help you with a dynamic here.  Draft leagues are so much different from anything else you have done.  Anyone can walk into an OL and Theme.  Not just anyone walks into this league.  People who walk in here typically are more seasoned and are used to tendencies.  By sitemail I have called the picks of several guys here because I know the likelihood of what they like.  Most for us know that Kobe will dominate the ball on ANY team.  To fit this team in you are playing Walker, Kobe, Pierce, Willis, and Howard to start with Jones and Scott off the bench.  This likely means Scott gets some PF time...holy sh**ty rebounding Batman.  Walker is good for rebounding, but I would like a guy here that hits the 3 to keep others honest.  I know you have 3's, but I don't know how much of it you will get to use with the Mamba stealing shots...oh and Willis.  Good value where you got him, but another hard guy because while he rebounds like a champ he will take opportunities away from Howard...which is counter-productive.  You are a solid enough and smart enough guy that I think your learning curve will be quite short.

8) ncmusician_7 - David Robinson, Donyell MarshallClyde Drexler, DeAndre JordanJason Terry, Charlie Ward, Jason Maxiell
This is the Good Wife.  I really like this show.  Well written, smart, and no crazy twists and turns.  Kids this is the easy way to build a winner.  Too many guys are looking for the diamond in the rough or the wow factor.  NC7 takes the Admiral, Marshall, and Glide to make a simple team that gives all the things that one needs.  Rebounding, efficiency, defense, and the right amount of usage makes this a tough beat.  Terry and Ward is a very nice tandem off the bench.  Jordan brings rebounding without a cost of usage as does Maxiell.  This is a very, very solid team.  I just feel it isn't a championship team, but may be just a couple of good breaks and a weak division away from  being a strong contender.

9) scudmissle - Charles Barkley, Dirk NowitzkiBill Walton, Nick AndersonMaurice Cheeks, Happy Hairston, Danny Ainge
This is The Wire.  I can't explain how much I like this scud.  Omar's comin' or should I say Chuck's coming.  So much win on this team.  People please pay attention...since this is how you build a team with Dirk.  It is a little light on the offensive boards, but Chuck and Happy are going to grab tons of boards.  Walton will control the def. boards with them.  Nick will kill it on the threes and Cheeks is a great addition to this squad.  There is a lot to love here.  I am a big fan...(is Chuck going to kiss Walton at any point of the season?)

10) ginandjuice Shaquille O'Neal, Marcus CambyMarques Johnson, Dana BarrosJR Smith, Terry Dehere, David Lee
This is Cheers.  I
 love it.  Shaq and Barros keep everyone honest in guarding you.  Camby and Johnson are nice with this team.  I feel like JR Smith is a lot like Diane...the weakest part of the show.  He will take away from others, but Terry Dehere may be your starter (I feel like that is a better option).  This is going to be a force in the playoffs.

11) malone9975 - Magic Johnson, Buck WilliamsWes Unseld, Grant HillWillis Reed, Brooks Thompson, Joel Przybilla
I
 hate evaulating my team someone else can do this

12) jakotay Kevin Garnett, Swen NaterSteve Nash, Raja BellVince Carter, Anthony Carter, Cadillac Anderson
This is the Greatest American Hero.  I
 really fun show that was inane when I was a kid.  This is going to be fun and frustrating.  I look at this and the only way I see drafting KG that early is if you are playing him at the 3.  If you play him at the 4 you might as well snag the Mailman.  I love Nater at the 4, but I am assuming he will play the 5 which I am not as big a fan of.  Nash and Bell together are nice, but I assume you are playing Vince at the 3 again...not a fan.  I took this line of thinking clearly from felonius, but I don't like playing PF's at C, and likewise I try to move SG's to PG, SF's to SG, PF's to SF, and C's to PF.  This way I can get some rebounding advantages (or least that is some of my failed logic).   I may be wrong with what you are trying to do (since I assume most people draft starters first unless a miracle drops in their lap), but I see you as shooting yourself into as many games as you shoot yourself out of.
I did drat KG for the three.... thought it was 42 mil and moved him to the 4 because I had to then totally blew it when I had 5 extra mil to work with..... after the draft ended.  Had I known before then KG would have been at the 3 for certain.
9/10/2012 4:08 AM
nc7 - I've worked and tweaked on the formula and idea.  I feel like this really puts emphasis on higher usage players without separating them out by tier.

efg%# = (2*usg/100-0.12)(efg-49)(10)

efg%#m* = (2*usg/100-0.12)(efg-49)(min*1.02/3936)(10)


I've created a spreadsheet with every player in the WIS database with an efg% of 54 or better.  That took quite a while, but eventually I plan on putting everyone with an efg% of 49 or higher in there... but we're already talking 1500+ players at this point.  The spreadsheet takes forever to load as it is now.


top 25 in efg%#m* is:

Chamberlain, Wilt    66-67 76ers
O'Neal, Shaquille    93-94 Magic
Barkley, Charles    87-88 76ers
Abdul-Jabbar, Kareem    71-72 Bucks
O'Neal, Shaquille    94-95 Magic
O'Neal, Shaquille    04-05 Heat
O'Neal, Shaquille    99-00 Lakers
Abdul-Jabbar, Kareem    70-71 Bucks
Barkley, Charles    89-90 76ers
Abdul-Jabbar, Kareem    79-80 Lakers

Howard, Dwight    10-11 Magic
Malone, Karl    89-90 Jazz
Gilmore, Artis    80-81 Bulls
Howard, Dwight    07-08 Magic
O'Neal, Shaquille    98-99 Lakers
McHale, Kevin    86-87 Celtics
Howard, Dwight    09-10 Magic
Stoudemire, Amare    07-08 Suns
Gilmore, Artis    81-82 Bulls
O'Neal, Shaquille    00-01 Lakers

Barkley, Charles    88-89 76ers
Howard, Dwight    06-07 Magic
Gilmore, Artis    71-72 Colonels
Chamberlain, Wilt    67-68 76ers
Barkley, Charles    90-91 76ers



Taking minutes out of the equation (possibly very useful for non-exclusive/non-draft leagues):

O'Neal, Shaquille    04-05 Heat
O'Neal, Shaquille    05-06 Heat
Dawkins, Darryl    85-86 Nets
O'Neal, Shaquille    10-11 Celtics
O'Neal, Shaquille    97-98 Lakers
O'Neal, Shaquille    93-94 Magic
O'Neal, Shaquille    06-07 Heat
Chamberlain, Wilt    66-67 76ers
O'Neal, Shaquille    94-95 Magic
Barkley, Charles    87-88 76ers

Stoudemire, Amare    07-08 Suns
O'Neal, Shaquille    01-02 Lakers
Barkley, Charles    90-91 76ers
Novak, Steve    10-11 Spurs
Novak, Steve    10-11 Mavericks
O'Neal, Shaquille    98-99 Lakers
O'Neal, Shaquille    95-96 Magic
Johnson, Steve    82-83 Kings
Gilmore, Artis    80-81 Bulls
Gilmore, Artis    81-82 Bulls

Davis, Walter    78-79 Suns
Howard, Dwight    10-11 Magic
Howard, Dwight    09-10 Magic
Gatling, Chris    95-96 Heat
O'Neal, Shaquille    08-09 Suns


9/10/2012 9:00 PM
ash, to the best of ur memory, has a player like Kobe (high volume, mediocre efficiency) ever been on a title team in this league?
9/11/2012 2:02 AM
not since the changes 2 years ago (to my knowledge).  scud won it once with a kobe/magic team back when OLs were the moses/rodman/peja/allen/nash rage (so before the 08-09 players were released).
9/11/2012 3:11 PM
didnt a team with 66-67 wilt and 01-02 paul pierce as the highest usage player win it all?

i won the ncih52 league with wade but that league is easier...was able to afford the perfect supporting cast for him

9/11/2012 8:22 PM
Posted by dh555 on 9/11/2012 3:11:00 PM (view original):
didnt a team with 66-67 wilt and 01-02 paul pierce as the highest usage player win it all?

i won the ncih52 league with wade but that league is easier...was able to afford the perfect supporting cast for him

I don't recall that.  I did skip 3 or so seasons after the salary changes came in, though.
9/12/2012 1:06 AM
Any spots open for next season yet?
9/12/2012 1:48 PM
I'd actually think, since the changes, it would be easier to win this league with a high-usage, mediocre-efficiency guy, since it's harder to build dominant efg% teams with the salary rules than it used to be. 50% efg in this league won't kill you as much as in the 52 mil.
9/12/2012 5:26 PM
I'd think that, too... but I always do better with efg% dominant teams than possession dominant teams in this league.  Significantly better.  In OLs it's about a toss-up, though I favor the possession dominant ones (my '67 Wilt + '97 Jordan won 212 regular season games + 3 'ships in 3 tries, and thus far my low tov% concept has dominated, too.  Steering away to a triple rodman + all 60%ish efg guys now so we'll see).  I haven't mastered the $52M cap yet.
9/15/2012 2:05 PM
EASTERN CONFERENCE

Team W-L PCT GB L10 STRK Owner  
Baltimore Bison 27-13 0.675 - 7-3 W2 Ginandjuice  
Ashlanta Mustangs 24-16 0.600 3 6-4 W3 ashamael  
Peja Kaže Puši Mi Kurac 21-19 0.525 6 5-5 L2 xxevilivexx  
BOL 17-23 0.425 10 4-6 W1 sappy  
KimKardashianisaWhor
e
14-26 0.350 13 4-6 W1 robocoach  
A Hill of Magic Beans 14-26 0.350 13 5-5 L3 malone9975  
 
Team W-L PCT GB L10 STRK Owner  
Ben and Jerry's 29-11 0.725 - 8-2 W1 tarheel1991  
Brianna's Hawks 24-16 0.600 5 4-6 L3 theyard2  
Dreaming Fundamentals 23-17 0.575 6 7-3 L1 eleibowitz  
Vampire T&A 18-22 0.450 11 5-5 L1 ncih  
Anonymooses 18-22 0.450 11 5-5 W4 tricky24  
Burning Down the House 16-24 0.400 13 5-5 L1 scudmissle  
 
WESTERN CONFERENCE
Team W-L PCT GB L10 STRK Owner  
Just Shoot the Ball! 27-13 0.675 - 6-4 W3 ljemd  
DRob & Clyde 25-15 0.625 2 5-5 W1 ncmusician_7  
Tilt with Wilt 22-18 0.550 5 3-7 L4 bluenote75  
Proud Father 20-20 0.500 7 2-8 W2 98average  
Kymira 10-30 0.250 17 1-9 L4 banditone  
Ferdinand Lewis Alcindor Jr 9-31 0.225 18 3-7 L2 jethroeg  
 
Team W-L PCT GB L10 STRK Owner  
Knock Knock 25-15 0.625 - 6-4 L1 coachcroft  
This team is not a contender 23-17 0.575 2 6-4 W1 natenoy  
You'veGotMail 23-17 0.575 2 6-4 L1 dh555  
Los Brickos 18-22 0.450 7 6-4 W1 brick_man  
Song of Tired and Fatigued 17-23 0.425 8 6-4 L1 mikee1  
Clusterfvck 16-24 0.400 9 5-5 W2 jakotay  
9/15/2012 2:17 PM
Posted by ashamael on 8/19/2012 10:54:00 PM (view original):
8) ncmusician_7 - David Robinson, Donyell Marshall, Clyde Drexler, DeAndre Jordan, Jason Terry, Charlie Ward, Jason Maxiell

Always a fan of the Admiral, even if I think he went a smidge too high.  Donyell's nice, but I don't have the boner for him that I once did... Not enough offensive board power to play the 3 in this cap IMO.  Glide is always a good choice and makes up somewhat for Donyell's lack of offensive boards... so that is a doubly nice pick.  DeAndre... wait... okay... tier 6 usage guy with nice, high efg%, mediocre boards and a lot of fouls.  Not sure why he's present on this squad.  Several other board-hoarders were available at that point that I think would have helped more.  Terry is a fantastic pick.  I like the offensive triumvirate of Admiral, Glide & Jet (and what a cool theme between the three!!!!).  Nice offensive balance.  Ward is 100% my favorite back up PG in the sim at any cap.  Maxiell's a nice back-up for Marshall.  Overall, below average rebounding, very nice efg%, nice amount of usage, good defense.  This is a playoff squad and is a contender, but the lack of boards (I feel) will hurt you in a playoff series.
I never understood why you questioned the DeAndre Jordan pick.  His current stats are 27.9mpg, 9.9ppg, 66.5fg%, 7.8rpg.  He fits very nicely on this squad.  Rebounding hasn't been an issue either, although I'm now starting to think that Marshall wasn't the best SF for this team.
9/15/2012 4:40 PM
I questioned Jordan for the very reasons I listed.  Mediocre boards.  He's averaging 7.8rpg.  Cool.  Your team is only winning the rebound battle by 2.5 & you're giving up more offensive boards than you're gaining.  That's averaging in the bad teams with the good.  Come playoff time, I believe you'll have trouble beating a good rebounding team in a 7-game series.  That's somewhat evidenced by the fact that you aren't dominating your division - you're in 2nd place.  All other parts the same, I think you'd be a good 5-10 games ahead of where you're at if you had a single "the guy" to clean the boards.  Boards by committee rarely works.

That's why I questioned the Jordan pick.
9/15/2012 5:06 PM
Posted by ashamael on 9/15/2012 4:40:00 PM (view original):
I questioned Jordan for the very reasons I listed.  Mediocre boards.  He's averaging 7.8rpg.  Cool.  Your team is only winning the rebound battle by 2.5 & you're giving up more offensive boards than you're gaining.  That's averaging in the bad teams with the good.  Come playoff time, I believe you'll have trouble beating a good rebounding team in a 7-game series.  That's somewhat evidenced by the fact that you aren't dominating your division - you're in 2nd place.  All other parts the same, I think you'd be a good 5-10 games ahead of where you're at if you had a single "the guy" to clean the boards.  Boards by committee rarely works.

That's why I questioned the Jordan pick.
When I drafted in the late 4th round, there wasn't anyone that met my criteria (2000+ minutes, low usage, high efficiency, 100% at PF, decent boards and defense) and was available that was noticeably better than Jordan.  No teams are what I would consider to be dominant in this league.  Boards by committee works fine if done properly.
9/15/2012 5:16 PM
The 2000+ minutes is where you made your mistake (imo).  You can platoon a lot of guys that have less and get a better shot on the boards.

This has been a very unusual ODL... there really are no dominant teams.

Boards by committee rarely works.

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