Posted by norbert on 12/29/2011 6:52:00 PM (view original):
I'll add some additional information about the offensive team ratings and defensive team ratings for rushing.  Whether these are what they should be or not is a different story, but I think it would help you look at your running game.  You can look at these in light of the "team average" ratings I've mentioned above.

Offensive - Primary: Speed, Game Instinct, Blocking, Strength - Secondary: Technique
Defensive - Primary: Technique, Tackle - Secondary: Speed, Game Instinct, Strength, Elusiveness

Just an aside, I've never understood some of these ratings.  Like why is Technique separate from Blocking? Isn't Blocking really Blocking Technique?  Isn't Tackling really Tackling Technique? Wouldn't you combine those with Speed, Strength and Athleticism to tell how well a player blocks or tackles?  This is where I'm thinking once I start digging into some of these engine checks that it might make more sense to overhaul some of the logic rather than just try to tweak it.

Posted by norbert on 12/29/2011 6:52:00 PM (view original):
I'll add some additional information about the offensive team ratings and defensive team ratings for rushing.  Whether these are what they should be or not is a different story, but I think it would help you look at your running game.  You can look at these in light of the "team average" ratings I've mentioned above.

Offensive - Primary: Speed, Game Instinct, Blocking, Strength - Secondary: Technique
Defensive - Primary: Technique, Tackle - Secondary: Speed, Game Instinct, Strength, Elusiveness

Just an aside, I've never understood some of these ratings.  Like why is Technique separate from Blocking? Isn't Blocking really Blocking Technique?  Isn't Tackling really Tackling Technique? Wouldn't you combine those with Speed, Strength and Athleticism to tell how well a player blocks or tackles?  This is where I'm thinking once I start digging into some of these engine checks that it might make more sense to overhaul some of the logic rather than just try to tweak it.

Posted by iamthetwo__2 on 12/29/2011 6:24:00 PM (view original):
Brad, I never asked just because it is too complicated for my old brain.  I just keep plodding along and get lucky on a few things ever once in a while.  I probably will never win a NC, but I still have fun playing the game. 

Posted by aneratergos on 12/30/2011 1:21:00 AM (view original):

Posted by norbert on 12/29/2011 6:52:00 PM (view original):
I'll add some additional information about the offensive team ratings and defensive team ratings for rushing.  Whether these are what they should be or not is a different story, but I think it would help you look at your running game.  You can look at these in light of the "team average" ratings I've mentioned above.

Offensive - Primary: Speed, Game Instinct, Blocking, Strength - Secondary: Technique
Defensive - Primary: Technique, Tackle - Secondary: Speed, Game Instinct, Strength, Elusiveness

Just an aside, I've never understood some of these ratings.  Like why is Technique separate from Blocking? Isn't Blocking really Blocking Technique?  Isn't Tackling really Tackling Technique? Wouldn't you combine those with Speed, Strength and Athleticism to tell how well a player blocks or tackles?  This is where I'm thinking once I start digging into some of these engine checks that it might make more sense to overhaul some of the logic rather than just try to tweak it.

I just want to make sure I understand what is being said here.  That sounds like SPD is a primary attribute for OL and STR is not a primary attribute for DL.  Back when the update came out Article #413 was updated and referenced by Conte in his postings (I think in the thread from which bhazelwood listed his updated GUESS ratings.).  That article has contradictory information in it from this posting by Norbert.  I am assuming Norbert's information is correct (He has a great deal more credibility at this point than Conte.).  Or have I misunderstood the significance of his statement?

my biggest concern is that there is no way to account for defending the run with a 3-4 or nickel ; the sim calculates everything the same way so there is no flexibility to allow for that ; ie 4 dl is always better than 3 and it really should not be ; LB's recruited to be run stoppers should be allowed to be just as effective at it as a DE that is built to be a pass rusher ... i will consider other examples and post them as they come to me

i am working from a small sample size of one season, but it seemed to me that i defended the run better with Nickle than I did with 4-3, my best unit was my DBs, so maybe that had something to do with it? DB was #1 unit on conference, DL and LB both near bottom. So maybe it isnt so that i was better from the Nickle but rather my front-7 sucked so much in a traditional D?

Posted by govolswoo on 12/30/2011 12:00:00 PM (view original):
re-reading this, are we saying that all player attributes go into a pool and a collective team rating comes out the other side? some sort of positional and proximity weighted average i assume?
say that if i have one blazing fast WR but 3 other so-so ones, my shotgun average will be dragged down? so far i have been thinking of things as one-on-one matchups. like if my fast WR is +15 speed over his fastest DB then I would assume he would be open all day, advantage me. the QB just keeps exploiting the matchup.
but whats really going on it that on average (for lack of a better word, might not be a true average) his DB corps is faster than my collective WR corps so advantage him?

Posted by rudyrude9 on 12/30/2011 10:52:00 AM (view original):
"As soon as I read this, I shifted some practice time to my QBs for Blocking (for my WB team). "

Really?

I would think that a QBs blocking ability would never come into play.  Or are we installing the Double WIng here on GD?

Didnt RGIII throw a monster block last night to spring Ganaway for a TD?

Posted by hughesjr on 12/30/2011 1:08:00 PM (view original):

Posted by govolswoo on 12/30/2011 12:00:00 PM (view original):
re-reading this, are we saying that all player attributes go into a pool and a collective team rating comes out the other side? some sort of positional and proximity weighted average i assume?
say that if i have one blazing fast WR but 3 other so-so ones, my shotgun average will be dragged down? so far i have been thinking of things as one-on-one matchups. like if my fast WR is +15 speed over his fastest DB then I would assume he would be open all day, advantage me. the QB just keeps exploiting the matchup.
but whats really going on it that on average (for lack of a better word, might not be a true average) his DB corps is faster than my collective WR corps so advantage him?

If I read what norbet said correctly ... it is going to be the players in the GRID that is being looked at who are going to be averaged.

Here is a basic grid picture of 4-3 vs I-Formation:



Here is a  basic representation of that grid.
---------------
P Q R S T
---------------
K L M N O
---------------
F G H I J
--------------
A B C D E 

The OL is in "F - J" ... the DL is in "K - O", etc.

So, the run play #1 starts in C, moves to G then to K for an outside run ... and run play #2 starts in C, moves to H and then M for an inside run. (Just 2 examples).

I think what norbert is saying is that for play #1, the first decision point is in Grid C ... and there is some subset of players in Grid C based on some calculations (maybe all DLs and All LBs on Defense and the OL, TE, FB, HB on Offense).  The runner is stopped or not.  If not stopped, the play then moves to Grid G and there is a different subset of players in that grid for the next decision point (Maybe this time it is the RS, RDE, RDT, ROLB, ILB on defense and the FB,TE, LT, LG, C on Offense that are averaged then).  If he is not stopped then, it moves on to a decision point in Grid K and in that one, the averages are TE, FB on offense and RS, RCB, ROLB on defense.

Does that make sense?