All Forums > Gridiron Dynasty Football > Gridiron Dynasty > Potential vs Work Ethic
1/25/2013 9:21 PM
How much difference in WE would you need in order to take an AVG potential recruit over a Above Average?

ex.  Avg potential - 55 WE  vs.   Above Avg Potential - 35 WE

1/25/2013 9:51 PM
I'm sure others have a formula, but I will say that it will depend on starts and playing time, primarily early in the career.  Also, what level are you talking about?  D3, D2, D1AA, or D1A?
1/25/2013 10:02 PM
D2 - Will be #4 WR this yr and #3 next
1/25/2013 11:04 PM
I may be wrong, but I think there is some overlap in the potential reports as well. I think a "high" average potential and a "low" high potential are close to the same. Seems like a remember some discussion about this a couple of years ago when maddiesdad spreadsheet was in use.

In other words its a hard number to figure out. In a case like that I just pick the player that better fits what I need and not worry too much about the difference in growth.
1/26/2013 1:56 AM
I think of WE as how fast a recruit learns, and potential as how much he can learn. High WE low potential will peak out faster, while low WE high potential will get to the same level, but will take longer to get there. Also, you can impact WE with starts and playing time, but potential seems to be fixed. I don't think anyone's put the effort into doing the math, but I'd take 20 WE points over the higher potential, especially if I was going to need the guy sooner rather than later.

1/26/2013 4:20 AM
What is work ethic based on?  It seems like it would be a mix of athleticism and work ethic, but it is something else because I am fairly certain I have seen high potential and low athleticism in the same recruit before. 

Is it just a random assignment by the game? 

1/26/2013 11:49 AM
why would ATH be tied to WE?  I'm not following...
1/26/2013 12:35 PM

There is also the growth rate for recruits, average or high. This can be determined from the AC coaches scouting report. He will say things like "always wants to improve" which means he will grow over 4 years. Or he will say "don't think he has the desire to keep working hard" means most of his growth will be in the first seasons. This can determine who needs to start early to improve the most or who will improve while waiting to play.

1/26/2013 12:42 PM
Athleticism is defined as the ability to apply strength, speed/agility and endurance and.or more simply: being good at sports.   http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/Athleticism.  All the work ethic in the world would not matter if you are not athletic enough to apply those physical attributes to the goal (in this case football but really any sport). 

Now, Wis may define athleticism differently, especially since the attributes which make up athleticism are each used seperately, but I think most coaches in real life when drafting (combine measures athleticism which is really potential)., or recruiting (when they go to see games they look for skills but they also look at potential which would be the attributes above like speed, agility, strength, in football but also eye hand coordination, jumping ability, flexibility or any other physical trait related to sport) look for talent/potential as much as skills.  Wis captures this feature well with the scouting, but the reasons for the high potential vs low potential is a bit confusing. 

The most obvious example of this is in the NFL when guys are drafted that did not play football based on their athleticism alone.  COaches believe with the right work ethic and coaching, the athleticism is the Xfactor that defines potential.  The reverse is true too - guys with all sorts of college awards and stats may not get drafted because they are not athletic enough for the pros, despite their college success. 


So to answer your question, a cursory glance at the available attributes would show work ethic as the desire to improve, while athleticism seems like it would be the ability to improve.  All of this is based on real life sports though, not simulations.  That is why I was asking what it is based on here in this game.  


Sorry if the answer seemed long winded but I had plenty of time to ponder this while wrestling in college.  A full day tournament might consist of 30 minutes of wrestling total, while the rest consisted of watching others and determining what made them have success or failure.  Sometimes the best recruits with the most desire never improved despite hours in the gym and the mat, while others got better just by thinking about wrestling.  Conversely, sometimes guys that had all the ability and  talent never lived up to their potential because they lacked the desire to improve.  So I guess I am saying work ethic(desire) x athleticism (talent) = potential.   

Hopefully that makes some sort of sense! 

   
1/26/2013 12:46 PM
Posted by katzphang88 on 1/26/2013 12:35:00 PM (view original):

There is also the growth rate for recruits, average or high. This can be determined from the AC coaches scouting report. He will say things like "always wants to improve" which means he will grow over 4 years. Or he will say "don't think he has the desire to keep working hard" means most of his growth will be in the first seasons. This can determine who needs to start early to improve the most or who will improve while waiting to play.

How does the scout determine that Katz?  Is there a random x factor for each recruit that is not shown?  Is it an equation based on the attributes that are shown?  I think that is the source of some confusion, at least for me anyway.   Obviously it something different than work ethic, but what is it? 
1/26/2013 1:02 PM
Athleticism in WIS is a multiplier of all the other categories.
1/26/2013 1:05 PM
i view potential as a number:  
tapped out = 1
low = 1.5
avg = 2
above = 2.5
sky/tremendous = 3

take your potential times work ethic  then you can get some type of deciding figure.  

1/26/2013 1:09 PM
It's a random factor not shown. The basic potential levels are 1) Tapped out - maybe one season of good growth, <1% of recruits, 2) Below Average - decent growth for ~ two seasons before maxing out, ~50% of recruits, 3) Above average - decent growth for ~ three seasons, ~50% of recruits, and 4) STL - good growth for 4+ seasons, <1% of recruits. The levels 1-4 can be determined from AC and HC scouts.

The numbers aren't exact, because there appears to be some variation between the four levels that may or may not be due to another variable in the scouting report, i.e., a recruit may be a low 2, or a high 2, and a high 2 may actually be better than a low 3. It's all speculation, though, because it's almost impossible to generate a significant sample size while keeping other variables (playing time, starts) constant.

1/26/2013 5:07 PM
Posted by xachockeyfan on 1/25/2013 9:21:00 PM (view original):
How much difference in WE would you need in order to take an AVG potential recruit over a Above Average?

ex.  Avg potential - 55 WE  vs.   Above Avg Potential - 35 WE

Take the first guy
1/26/2013 8:36 PM
Posted by samson75 on 1/26/2013 12:46:00 PM (view original):
Posted by katzphang88 on 1/26/2013 12:35:00 PM (view original):

There is also the growth rate for recruits, average or high. This can be determined from the AC coaches scouting report. He will say things like "always wants to improve" which means he will grow over 4 years. Or he will say "don't think he has the desire to keep working hard" means most of his growth will be in the first seasons. This can determine who needs to start early to improve the most or who will improve while waiting to play.

How does the scout determine that Katz?  Is there a random x factor for each recruit that is not shown?  Is it an equation based on the attributes that are shown?  I think that is the source of some confusion, at least for me anyway.   Obviously it something different than work ethic, but what is it? 
Random factor in the player set-up. Watch some players with these descriptions. The ones who "don't want to work hard" won't grow much their Jr or senior years. Some formula set in WIS.
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