9/11/2012 9:51 AM
What, exactly, is "stale" about the game?
9/11/2012 10:38 AM
Nothing, it's perfection...and that's the reason there hasn't been a substantive update in years. Why they even have a suggestions forum is crazy since there is no way to improve the accuracy of the simulation or the way the game is presented.


9/11/2012 10:44 AM
"Stale" is in the eyes of the beholder.   Of course the game isn't perfect.  But it's pretty good.  Nonetheless, even people who like the game will have periods of disinterest.   It's happened to me several times.   A flashy update isn't going to change that. 
9/11/2012 10:50 AM
This thread is turning out to be helpful to me;  that is the portion of it that deals with differences between good and bad worlds.  Others may find it helpful too.  So lrt's keep it going a bit longer,  a bit deeper.

We've learned that  the key to a good world is a good commissioner who has real powers to enforce real rules.  That makes sense to me.  However,  how does a person like me,  seeking to move from a not-so-good world to a good world,  make use of this knowledge?  Nearly all the private worlds listed on the HBD recruiting page right now have their own set of rules (Although most of these are just copycat rules.)  How can I tell if these rules are actually enforced by a commissioner with actual powers?

Of course I understand if a world's rules require a majority vote or a committee or something in order to expell a bad actor I should probably avoid those worlds.  But many of the private worlds' rules don't have such language.  Their commissioners have absolute dictatorial powers to expell bad actors.  But how can an HBD shopper know that the commissioners of these worlds actually enforce the rules?  I've noticed that several of these worlds that grant their commissioners absolute enforcement powers have as many openings as the worlds that require majority votes and polling of members and so on.
9/11/2012 11:07 AM (edited)

I didn't say the game wasn't good, but it's the same. It doesn't matter what game it is they need to change, additional content needs to be added or a percentage of the more veteran players will eventually leave.

WIS doesn't seem to have the influx of new owners necessary to really counteract that issue. I'm not saying there are no new players...but you need a lot of new people to gain the few that are going to stick around for multiple seasons.
 

9/11/2012 11:20 AM
Posted by tomfool on 9/11/2012 10:50:00 AM (view original):
This thread is turning out to be helpful to me;  that is the portion of it that deals with differences between good and bad worlds.  Others may find it helpful too.  So lrt's keep it going a bit longer,  a bit deeper.

We've learned that  the key to a good world is a good commissioner who has real powers to enforce real rules.  That makes sense to me.  However,  how does a person like me,  seeking to move from a not-so-good world to a good world,  make use of this knowledge?  Nearly all the private worlds listed on the HBD recruiting page right now have their own set of rules (Although most of these are just copycat rules.)  How can I tell if these rules are actually enforced by a commissioner with actual powers?

Of course I understand if a world's rules require a majority vote or a committee or something in order to expell a bad actor I should probably avoid those worlds.  But many of the private worlds' rules don't have such language.  Their commissioners have absolute dictatorial powers to expell bad actors.  But how can an HBD shopper know that the commissioners of these worlds actually enforce the rules?  I've noticed that several of these worlds that grant their commissioners absolute enforcement powers have as many openings as the worlds that require majority votes and polling of members and so on.
Tom,

Any method of enforcing the rules can work as long as they're enforced. I play in Moneyball which I believe many owners consider to be a "good" league. We have a commissioner and a veterans committee that enforce the rules and as importantly vet new potential owners.  Other rules are just automatic like Minimum Wins. 

How do you find those leagues? Look at their application process? Look at the league history for teams that dominate for years or for teams that lose many years in a row. Look at the forums for posts by owners in the league. 

Good leagues will have openings and may not fill immediately, but that might be because they've expelled a few owners after the previous season and are taking the time to find new members. 
9/11/2012 11:28 AM
Posted by kschoenberg on 9/11/2012 11:07:00 AM (view original):

I didn't say the game wasn't good, but it's the same. It doesn't matter what game it is they need to change, additional content needs to be added or a percentage of the more veteran players will eventually leave.

WIS doesn't seem to have the influx of new owners necessary to really counteract that issue. I'm not saying there are no new players...but you need a lot of new people to gain the few that are going to stick around for multiple seasons.
 

Madden sells pretty well.   When was the last time there was a major change to it?

The difference is this:   You can play Madden for three months, put it down and pick it up again in 6 months.   Or you can buy a new one with new players.  But it's still the same game.  You can't put HBD down for 6 months.  The world rolls and you play.   Month after month after month after month.   It can begin to feel like a job.  But that's the nature of the game.    No matter what changes are made, it's still the same game.

Name one "Must Have" change that you think would keep people interested for months on end in this ADD society.
9/11/2012 11:35 AM
Madden as in the Madden football game for PCs, XBox, etc?
9/11/2012 11:53 AM
Yes but don't focus on that.  

This is the important part:   "Name one "Must Have" change that you think would keep people interested for months on end in this ADD society."
9/11/2012 12:11 PM
Posted by kschoenberg on 9/11/2012 11:20:00 AM (view original):
Posted by tomfool on 9/11/2012 10:50:00 AM (view original):
This thread is turning out to be helpful to me;  that is the portion of it that deals with differences between good and bad worlds.  Others may find it helpful too.  So lrt's keep it going a bit longer,  a bit deeper.

We've learned that  the key to a good world is a good commissioner who has real powers to enforce real rules.  That makes sense to me.  However,  how does a person like me,  seeking to move from a not-so-good world to a good world,  make use of this knowledge?  Nearly all the private worlds listed on the HBD recruiting page right now have their own set of rules (Although most of these are just copycat rules.)  How can I tell if these rules are actually enforced by a commissioner with actual powers?

Of course I understand if a world's rules require a majority vote or a committee or something in order to expell a bad actor I should probably avoid those worlds.  But many of the private worlds' rules don't have such language.  Their commissioners have absolute dictatorial powers to expell bad actors.  But how can an HBD shopper know that the commissioners of these worlds actually enforce the rules?  I've noticed that several of these worlds that grant their commissioners absolute enforcement powers have as many openings as the worlds that require majority votes and polling of members and so on.
Tom,

Any method of enforcing the rules can work as long as they're enforced. I play in Moneyball which I believe many owners consider to be a "good" league. We have a commissioner and a veterans committee that enforce the rules and as importantly vet new potential owners.  Other rules are just automatic like Minimum Wins. 

How do you find those leagues? Look at their application process? Look at the league history for teams that dominate for years or for teams that lose many years in a row. Look at the forums for posts by owners in the league. 

Good leagues will have openings and may not fill immediately, but that might be because they've expelled a few owners after the previous season and are taking the time to find new members. 
Consistent enforcement of rules is important.  Integrity on the part of the commissioner is also important.

I'm aware of one world in particular right now in which one owner is currently well below the posted win requirements on that world's Private World Rule's page, and has virtually no chance to make it.  The commish of that world has publically stated that he's in favor of giving the failing owner a "second chance", and is also offering to personally help that owner next season.  Now, that offer may be on the up-and-up, but my feeling is that anytime one owner offers to "help" another owner in the same world, it opens up the appearance of possibility of impropriety.  Especially when it's the commissioner of the world..

Those are the kinds of worlds that you want to stay away from.

When "shopping" for a new world, you want to perdorm some due diligence.  Check out the world chat to get a sense for the "tone" of the world and what kind of stuff is going on there.  Check out prior season's records to see if there's a lot of skew between big winners and big losers.  If you see another owner in that world who you "know", sitemail them and ask them about the world.
9/11/2012 12:21 PM
Best thing to do is ask the commish and any owners you've played with about the world if you're unsure.   A good commish isn't going to bullshit you to get you to join and the other owners should also tell you deal.
9/11/2012 12:32 PM
Posted by MikeT23 on 9/11/2012 11:53:00 AM (view original):
Yes but don't focus on that.  

This is the important part:   "Name one "Must Have" change that you think would keep people interested for months on end in this ADD society."
You used Madden as an example a game they change every year.

I've made many suggestions on how the game could be improved, expanded in the past. This isn't the thread for it and I really am not interested in going through it again. The game isn't perfect, it can be made better and ADD has nothing to do with it.
9/11/2012 12:53 PM
Madden makes a minor change to make it "new".  Only fools think the game is vastly different.   Mostly it's just player updates.   Which is exactly what we get here every season.

I'm simply asking for your most important change.   The one that would make everyone go "OH HELL YEAH!!!  I'M ADDING THREE MORE TEAMS!!!"    I somehow doubt there is one.
9/11/2012 12:57 PM
I do wish they could make some changes to the Public/Private Worlds page when new users are signing them up. A link straight to the world rules, for example.
Also a link to the Classifieds section.

9/11/2012 1:10 PM
I'll help.   Here's three that I think would greatly improve the game:

1.  Coach hiring.  Savvy owners don't spend 2m on a hitting/pitching/bench coach because they don't have to.  There are 50 of them at any given time of BL-quality.   This creates a disparity between experienced/inexperienced owners that needs to be addressed.   Keep the rehire process as it is but, once that's over, all unhired coaches go into a pool with no positional/level/salary demands.   Let the owners sort out the levels and positions.   Cap salaries at 4m per coach(players have a max so coaches can) and make FI the most sought after job.  That will prevent jerks like me from hiring all the decent FI as BC so no one else gets one. 

2.  Advance scouting.   Savvy owners don't really need it.    Again, this creates a disparity between those who know and those who don't.  Change ADV to show projections for players NOT on a BL roster.   This would include HS, college, IFA and free agents.    The higher the ADV, the more accurate the projection.    HS/College/IFA budgets will determine how many players you see but will not tell you the quality of them.    IFA demands will need to be standardized(100k is a good starting point) so owners with low ADV won't be tipped off as to their quality.   Players on rosters can have projections based on ADV as it stands now.

3.  Player development.  I'd say it's pretty standard for almost all players.   Owners can make a small difference in maximizing(or completely wreck them) development but a good owner develops players in a pretty standard manner.   Provide some diversity.   At least three different patterns.    Have some develop early and max out 2-3 seasons into their careers(18, 6, 1, 0, 0 OVR).  Have some develop slowly and be late bloomers(3, 2, 2, 10, 8).   And keep some the same(11, 7, 4, 2, 1).    The more patterns the better but we need more than one.   Savvy owners can look at a 2nd/3rd year player they're considering in trade and say "This is what he's going to be" with pretty high accuracy.
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