9/11/2012 7:23 PM
Holy hell!  That's the abbreviated version?

As they say in France "WTF, oui?"
Or in Canada "WTF, eh?"
9/11/2012 8:11 PM
I was once in a world that took a long time to fill. It was bad.
9/11/2012 8:50 PM (edited)
Posted by MikeT23 on 9/11/2012 12:53:00 PM (view original):
Madden makes a minor change to make it "new".  Only fools think the game is vastly different.   Mostly it's just player updates.   Which is exactly what we get here every season.

I'm simply asking for your most important change.   The one that would make everyone go "OH HELL YEAH!!!  I'M ADDING THREE MORE TEAMS!!!"    I somehow doubt there is one.
Of course there's not one miracle change. I didn't claim there was one. There are improvements and additions that could be made throughout the game that would make it better, more challenging and more interesting. You appear to have quite an active imagination I'm sure you could even think of an improvement or two that would make the game better

In general, they could flesh out historical stats, allow greater granularity of control, include total payroll penalties for poor performance, and a slew of other ideas. I'm sure that there are people at WIS that have ideas on how to make the game better as well...but it appear they're unwilling to devote much in the way of resources to do so and until that changes it's truly a waste of time for us to discuss it.

BTW, that "minor" change you claim is made in Madden each year costs EA more money in developer manpower than WIS has spent on the entirety of all their leagues. They also spend more money in a day promoting their product than WIS has ever done. You tried to equate Madden to HBD...in no sense are they comparable.
9/11/2012 9:06 PM

Well, to be fair, Madden is probably the best selling franchise ever.  My point is there are no "major" changes to the game in 10 years or so(last one I bought was the 20th edition so maybe I'm missing something).

The "challenge" is left largely to us.  I've filled the worlds I commish with good owners.  As a result, I can't sniff the playoffs.  My challenge is to get better at the game.    "Interesting" is tough.    If you're not interested in the basic concept, it's a hard sell to you with or without more bells and whistles.    Finally, "better" is in the eye of the beholder.   We get dozens of "improvement" suggestions.   I think most stink out loud.   Adding them would not make the game "better" IMO(payroll penalties for poor performance is one that I think stinks out loud).

9/11/2012 9:33 PM (edited)


You say "We get dozens..."  Is that the royal "we"? Do you work for WIS?

It's not up to the customer to make a product interesting or to improve it...any company, especially a game developer, that believes that is not going to be around long.

 As for your opinion...After seeing your posts for years I'm pretty certain you've never found an idea other than your own to be even remotely acceptable. Frankly, I've found the vast majority of your posts to be self-aggrandizing BS and a waste of time.

9/11/2012 9:28 PM
Posted by MikeT23 on 9/11/2012 3:34:00 PM (view original):
Posted by damag on 9/11/2012 1:58:00 PM (view original):
Re: player development.  I suggested in another thread that one thing about the game that becomes readily obvious in a short while is the predictability of the talent, where it comes from, and how it plays out.  I observed that in this game there seems to be no possibility at all for the existence of a Bautista or an R.A. Dickey, and likewise very little chance of a player having a "career season" like a Brady Anderson.

A veteran player sitemailed me with an explanation that in the early days of HBD there used to be more randomness in how players performed.  But, he said, many owners didn't like it, and complained, and the model was changed to accomodate them.



There is still plenty of randomness about how player's perform.   The thing most aren't interested in is a game of complete chance.   There's no reason for you to spend two hours ranking prospects if there's just as good of chance that your pick at 12 will be the same player as the guy drafted at 379.
I brought this up again because you suggested on page 3 that providing diversity in player growth patterns would be good for the game. A statement that I would agree with. However, the explanation given above suggests that the majority of HBD owners would be quite opposed to the notion. And yes I know this is a paid game and owners will demand satisfaction in the form of sure fire return on their top five draft pick.

I'm not suggesting that they should add Bautistas and Dickeys. It does bug me a little that virtually every top five pick appears to be more or less guaranteed a Pujols like career, in which they just start mashing and never vary or tail off until age sets in. That's the essence of what makes tanking work, right?


9/11/2012 10:11 PM
KS, you're probably right.  Like this thread, most suggestions are "How can I make the game better for me?" thoughts with no regard for the big picture.  I'm a big picture kind of guy.  If an "improvement" enhances the game for 3 people, I'm not interested.

damag, we might be having a misunderstanding.  The #10 pick should be pretty damn good.   What I was suggesting was a different development pattern that might indicate he sucks balls or was markedly better than expected after three seasons.  If he's my guy that I drafted with 20m in scouting, I already know.  However, if you're looking at him with your 0 ADV scouting, you wouldn't.
9/11/2012 11:56 PM
No I get it, I agree that such players would introduce a variable into the predictability of careers, and the scouting point would enhance your proposal to make ADV scouting more necessary. I can see it being a hard sell to the customers though.
9/12/2012 4:56 AM
Posted by kschoenberg on 9/11/2012 9:33:00 PM (view original):


You say "We get dozens..."  Is that the royal "we"? Do you work for WIS?

It's not up to the customer to make a product interesting or to improve it...any company, especially a game developer, that believes that is not going to be around long.

 As for your opinion...After seeing your posts for years I'm pretty certain you've never found an idea other than your own to be even remotely acceptable. Frankly, I've found the vast majority of your posts to be self-aggrandizing BS and a waste of time.

With Godfather Mike it's ALWAYS the royal "we."  No one else is allowed to have an idea.  Or rather,  you can have an idea but only to expose yourself as a selfish idiot who (to quote The Godfather's lovely French)  "sucks balls."
9/12/2012 8:52 AM
Posted by damag on 9/11/2012 11:56:00 PM (view original):
No I get it, I agree that such players would introduce a variable into the predictability of careers, and the scouting point would enhance your proposal to make ADV scouting more necessary. I can see it being a hard sell to the customers though.
Not sure about that.  I'm a 0 ADV guy and I think allowing owners to zero out anything is bad.   There are 0 medical owners.    What MLB club would have no advance scouts or medical staff?   Or no scouts at HS games?   Or, even worse, no scouts at HS and college games.   I think most of the experienced, long-time owners would welcome a change that heavily penalizes owners with 0 anything.
9/12/2012 8:59 AM
tom, you have 17 completed seasons.   This is the first time you've posted about the supply/demand "problem".   Why is that?   Did you suddenly get overcome with grief by this horrendous issue that dampens the enthusiasm of all HBD players?   Or is it because you found yourself in a world that was slow to roll?
9/12/2012 10:49 AM
Posted by MikeT23 on 9/12/2012 8:59:00 AM (view original):
tom, you have 17 completed seasons.   This is the first time you've posted about the supply/demand "problem".   Why is that?   Did you suddenly get overcome with grief by this horrendous issue that dampens the enthusiasm of all HBD players?   Or is it because you found yourself in a world that was slow to roll?
How do you know this is the first time I've posted about the supply demand  problem?  Usually,  when you state one of your sweeping,  catagorical Truths,  it is accompanied by lists of numbers, sums,  divisors, percentage signs and suchlike.  Without hard data and statistical evidence,  without the supporting spread sheets,  Mike,  I'm  afraid I'm just not going to be able to give your statement much weight. 
9/12/2012 11:02 AM
Because I like to mock "The sky is falling" folks.   So I know when one of the "How will WifS ensure worlds roll quickly?" threads are started.   

If you've started another, please feel free to bump it to prove me wrong.   Thanks in advance.
9/12/2012 12:04 PM
Posted by MikeT23 on 9/12/2012 11:02:00 AM (view original):
Because I like to mock "The sky is falling" folks.   So I know when one of the "How will WifS ensure worlds roll quickly?" threads are started.   

If you've started another, please feel free to bump it to prove me wrong.   Thanks in advance.
Your mock was not that I have never started another  supply/demand thread but that I have never posted another supply/demand post.  Two different things.   Make up your mind. 
9/12/2012 12:57 PM
Feel free to bump either the non-existent thread or the the non-existent post.    Doesn't matter either way to me.
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