Posted by tecwrg on 7/4/2014 3:54:00 PM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 7/4/2014 3:27:00 PM (view original):

Posted by tecwrg on 7/4/2014 1:41:00 PM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 7/4/2014 12:04:00 PM (view original):

Posted by tecwrg on 7/3/2014 9:39:00 PM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 7/3/2014 9:30:00 PM (view original):
And insurance premiums aren't birth control subsidies.

Sure they are.

If I'm paying premiums to an insurance company, and that insurance company is providing birth control to it's clients, then my premiums are subsidizing it.

Where do you think the money to pay the drug companies for the birth control is coming from?

If you're paying money to someone, and that person uses some of that money to pay for birth control, that violates your rights?

So now an insurance company is a person?

I thought it might be an "entity specifically formed to legally separate it from shareholders".

Has something changed since last night in your definition of businesses?

I'm assuming that there are people that work at insurance companies, right?

And you didn't answer the question.

I'm assuming there are people who work at Hobby Lobby, too.  Right?

I didn't answer your question because it's irrelevant to the conversation at hand.

So, to summarize your position: some companies (like Hobby Lobby) aren't people, so they have no right to religious freedom.  But other companies (like insurance companies) are people, so it's no different if they purchase birth control for their insured individuals with premiums paid from their business clients, than if the individuals bought it themselves with wages paid by their employers.

In other words: businesses may or may not be people, depending on how conveniently it fits your argument.

Good job.

You missed the point. We are, for the sake of argument, agreeing with the Supreme Court that a corporation is a person.

With that in mind:

If you're paying money to someone, and that person uses some of that money to pay for birth control, how does that violate your rights?

Posted by The Taint on 7/5/2014 11:36:00 AM (view original):
I highly doubt that the founding fathers would have intended that corporations, and the many benefits that go with being a corporation, to impose "their" religious will on others.

They're not "imposing" their religious will on anyone.   They're saying "We don't want to pay for that specific thing you want."    Those being denied can still purchase said item.  

If I knock up some 18 y/o, she might want an abortion.  I might not want to pay for it for religious reasons.  She can still have one.  Did I impose my "religious will" on her?   

Posted by bronxcheer on 7/5/2014 12:49:00 PM (view original):

Posted by moy23 on 7/5/2014 12:46:00 PM (view original):
Let people live their lives... That's freedom. Smaller federal govt, less federal taxes. Why the heck is the federal govt even getting involved in birth control, health insurance, gun control, Solyndra, etc. Its so annoying.

And the military. Privatize it!  so much more efficient and less wasteful!

Federal govt should be involved in 3 things only. Defense of the country. Central Bank. Upholding (not making) the law. States and local govt can do the rest.

Posted by The Taint on 7/5/2014 11:43:00 AM (view original):
And I still haven't heard anyone arguing for this decision tackle the fact that they invest in the very thing they are so against. Not to mention do business with one of the countries that has one of the worse records on abortion.

It's not relevant to the discussion. 

Hobby Lobby provides birth control. 

Sixteen devises or ways.  They deny four.

Those four are considered abortion.

Hobby Lobby pays twice the minimum wage to workers.

It costs $9 a month for birth control.

Walk around the corner and you can get it for free.

Planned parenthood or any building next door to another one paid for by tax payers.

The silence is deafening.

Posted by bad_luck on 7/5/2014 1:07:00 PM (view original):

Posted by tecwrg on 7/4/2014 3:54:00 PM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 7/4/2014 3:27:00 PM (view original):

Posted by tecwrg on 7/4/2014 1:41:00 PM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 7/4/2014 12:04:00 PM (view original):

Posted by tecwrg on 7/3/2014 9:39:00 PM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 7/3/2014 9:30:00 PM (view original):
And insurance premiums aren't birth control subsidies.

Sure they are.

If I'm paying premiums to an insurance company, and that insurance company is providing birth control to it's clients, then my premiums are subsidizing it.

Where do you think the money to pay the drug companies for the birth control is coming from?

If you're paying money to someone, and that person uses some of that money to pay for birth control, that violates your rights?

So now an insurance company is a person?

I thought it might be an "entity specifically formed to legally separate it from shareholders".

Has something changed since last night in your definition of businesses?

I'm assuming that there are people that work at insurance companies, right?

And you didn't answer the question.

I'm assuming there are people who work at Hobby Lobby, too.  Right?

I didn't answer your question because it's irrelevant to the conversation at hand.

So, to summarize your position: some companies (like Hobby Lobby) aren't people, so they have no right to religious freedom.  But other companies (like insurance companies) are people, so it's no different if they purchase birth control for their insured individuals with premiums paid from their business clients, than if the individuals bought it themselves with wages paid by their employers.

In other words: businesses may or may not be people, depending on how conveniently it fits your argument.

Good job.

You missed the point. We are, for the sake of argument, agreeing with the Supreme Court that a corporation is a person.

With that in mind:

If you're paying money to someone, and that person uses some of that money to pay for birth control, how does that violate your rights?

Sorry, I'm not playing your game, in which sometimes corporations are people and sometimes they're not, depending on which definition is more convenient at any particular point in time for you.

With that in mind:

Your question is irrelevant to this discussion.

Posted by DougOut on 7/5/2014 1:30:00 PM (view original):
Hobby Lobby provides birth control. 

Sixteen devises or ways.  They deny four.

Those four are considered abortion.

Hobby Lobby pays twice the minimum wage to workers.

It costs $9 a month for birth control.

Walk around the corner and you can get it for free.

Planned parenthood or any building next door to another one paid for by tax payers.

Sorry. That's not good enough.

A woman's constitutional right to be provided with free contraceptives of any and every form, is FAR more valuable than the imaginary constitutional right to not have religious beliefs infringed upon.

I know the First Amendment to the Constitution covers freedom of religion.

Which amendment covers free contraceptives?  I'm unable to find it.

Posted by mchalesarmy on 7/5/2014 1:57:00 PM (view original):

Posted by DougOut on 7/5/2014 1:30:00 PM (view original):
Hobby Lobby provides birth control. 

Sixteen devises or ways.  They deny four.

Those four are considered abortion.

Hobby Lobby pays twice the minimum wage to workers.

It costs $9 a month for birth control.

Walk around the corner and you can get it for free.

Planned parenthood or any building next door to another one paid for by tax payers.

Sorry. That's not good enough.

A woman's constitutional right to be provided with free contraceptives of any and every form, is FAR more valuable than the imaginary constitutional right to not have religious beliefs infringed upon.

Its a right to get free birth control? Can I get a free car? A free phone? A free home? A free dinner? I want my rights!!!!

Posted by mchalesarmy on 7/5/2014 1:57:00 PM (view original):

Posted by DougOut on 7/5/2014 1:30:00 PM (view original):
Hobby Lobby provides birth control. 

Sixteen devises or ways.  They deny four.

Those four are considered abortion.

Hobby Lobby pays twice the minimum wage to workers.

It costs $9 a month for birth control.

Walk around the corner and you can get it for free.

Planned parenthood or any building next door to another one paid for by tax payers.

Sorry. That's not good enough.

A woman's constitutional right to be provided with free contraceptives of any and every form, is FAR more valuable than the imaginary constitutional right to not have religious beliefs infringed upon.

Where do you find that in the Constitution?

Posted by DougOut on 7/5/2014 2:05:00 PM (view original):

Posted by mchalesarmy on 7/5/2014 1:57:00 PM (view original):

Posted by DougOut on 7/5/2014 1:30:00 PM (view original):
Hobby Lobby provides birth control. 

Sixteen devises or ways.  They deny four.

Those four are considered abortion.

Hobby Lobby pays twice the minimum wage to workers.

It costs $9 a month for birth control.

Walk around the corner and you can get it for free.

Planned parenthood or any building next door to another one paid for by tax payers.

Sorry. That's not good enough.

A woman's constitutional right to be provided with free contraceptives of any and every form, is FAR more valuable than the imaginary constitutional right to not have religious beliefs infringed upon.

Where do you find that in the Constitution?

I believe mchale was mocking the "outraged" anti-religious freedom folks.

Oh.

Is this piling on?

I like it.

It's your First Amendment right to do so.

I'm telling my age.

I remember when the teacher read a Bible verse to the class every morning. 

We weren't offened about love, justice or consequences and a ruler on our fingers or a plank on our butts.

These were stories and verses that emphasized our parents thoughts and their loving care.  Our community and neighbors.

I'm sorry I was too young to oppose the government then.

I'm old enough now.

There are no more excuses.