All Forums > General Discussion > Non-Sports > THE WAR ON CHRISTMAS!!!!!
12/18/2012 4:27 PM
The point is that atheism IS a religion. It has all the aspects of a religion, yet wants to distance itself from religion. Its followers benefit by claiming not to have anything to do with religion, so that is what they do.

You can't have opinions about something and then claim you are neutral on the issue and have entirely no opinion on it. In the same way, you can't state religious opinions and then claim to be without any religious beliefs.

The belief there is no god is a religious belief. You can't get around that to say you have no religion whatsoever no matter how hard you try.

12/18/2012 5:24 PM (edited)
 It has all the aspects of a religion

LIKE WHAT? There is exactly one aspect of atheism--disbelief in god. Nothing else. It is the opposite of a religion.

you can't state religious opinions and then claim to be without any religious beliefs

Having a belief that is related to religion is not the same as being in a religion.

12/18/2012 7:02 PM
Saying the only belief of Atheism is no god is like saying the only belief of Christianity is God.

We both have other beliefs.
12/18/2012 7:07 PM
Posted by swamphawk22 on 12/18/2012 7:02:00 PM (view original):
Saying the only belief of Atheism is no god is like saying the only belief of Christianity is God.

We both have other beliefs.
Thank you for making my point.

Christianity and atheism are not analogous. Christianity is a religion with many different characteristics that make the religion what it is.

Atheism is simply a word for the non-belief in god. I'm sure people who don't believe in god have other beliefs, but those beliefs have nothing to do with atheism.
12/18/2012 7:31 PM
Atheists have other beliefs...

http://www.michiganatheists.org/
12/18/2012 7:38 PM
I don't see any other beliefs there. But that's irrelevant. Individual atheists can have whatever beliefs they want (assuming that non-belief in god is one of them).

Atheism is defined ONLY by the non-belief in god. There are no other characteristics or concepts of atheism.


12/18/2012 10:17 PM
Isn't Fox News the one spouting off about the "War on Christmas"?  I just heard two spots on FoxSports radio that had all of their radio personalties saying "Happy Holidays" from the FoxSports family. 
12/19/2012 8:15 AM
Posted by MikeT23 on 12/18/2012 10:21:00 AM (view original):
What if you don't believe in a higher power and do think that is a religion?   What if you and a group of friends gather at 10 AM on every Sunday and discuss why there is no god? 
AHEM!
12/19/2012 8:16 AM
Posted by The Taint on 12/18/2012 10:17:00 PM (view original):
Isn't Fox News the one spouting off about the "War on Christmas"?  I just heard two spots on FoxSports radio that had all of their radio personalties saying "Happy Holidays" from the FoxSports family. 
There's ideas and there's practical application.     I'm sure FOX doesn't want to be in the center of a firestorm because their NFL analysts say "Merry Christmas" to the masses. 
12/19/2012 8:45 AM
LIKE WHAT? There is exactly one aspect of atheism--disbelief in god. Nothing else. It is the opposite of a religion.

*sighs deeply*

We've been through this before. Atheism is based on the central tenet of disbelief in god (which you state here clearly), which is a statement on the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe (specifically that god has nothing to do with it). That makes it a religion by itself. Further, that central tenet is a religious belief, which suggests those who agree upon it are part of a common religion.

There is no such thing as "the opposite of religion". We've been over that already as well.

Atheism is a group of people who share a common religious belief - that's called a religion. Just because their agenda is "anti-religion" doesn't make it any less of a religion itself. You can claim it all you want but it doesn't make it so.

Like I said before, if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, then it must be a duck that claims it isn't a duck because it would rather be some kind of super duck that is above the rules normally applied to ducks.

Sorry - it doesn't work that way. A duck is a duck no matter what it says it is, and atheism is a religion because it has the necessary attributes to be considered a religion.

This will be the last time I try to educate you on what a religion is. If you can't get it, then you are either far less intelligent than I thought or you are in denial. Still, that denial doesn't change the fact that atheism is a religion.
Having a belief that is related to religion is not the same as being in a religion.

This is where you keep missing things. 

If you have religious beliefs, you have a religion. It doesn't have to exactly match up with any organized religion or even with anyone else on the planet. Your religious beliefs are your own. You can determine what religion most lines up with your beliefs, whether or not you attend their events, are an "official member" or "belong to" them or anything of the sort. None of those things are necessary.

You don't have to "be in" a religion to be religious. Again, this is a simple concept that you should get by now unless you are far less intelligent than I think you are or you are simply in denial about it because it fits your agenda.
Atheism is simply a word for the non-belief in god.

So there are no such thing as atheists, or people with a common religious belief?

If atheism represents a group of people with a common religious belief, then its a religion. So according to you, there is no group of people who have no belief in god, so there is no such thing as atheism.

It's just a word without any belief whatsoever according to this. Since no one believes in atheism, then I guess it's dead, and this topic is moot.
Individual atheists can have whatever beliefs they want (assuming that non-belief in god is one of them).
Individual believers in ANY religion can have whatever beliefs they want, assuming that some of those beliefs line up with the central tenets of that particular religion.

You should be seeing the common thread here between atheism and any other religion. If you aren't, once again, you either are less intelligent than I think or you are in purposeful denial.

Atheism is defined ONLY by the non-belief in god. There are no other characteristics or concepts of atheism.

And as I've explained, there don't need to be other characteristics for atheism to be a religion. It needs only to be a central belief about the cause, nature, or purpose of the universe shared by a common group of people, and it is certainly that by your own admission.

I could go all day with this, but it's clear you are either in severe denial (convenient for your agenda and that of atheism itself) or you simply can't grasp the simple concepts that make atheism a religion. In either case there is no point in going on and repeating things you can't seem to get for one reason or another.

Unless you've got something new, you can keep believing atheism isn't a religion for all I care. Don't try to learn anything new or accept the truth. Your loss.

Merry Christmas to all.

Also, I'm still wondering when anyone is going to give a concrete example of atheists getting together as a group and actually doing something to make the world a better place or help their communities. Most religions have some people who do this, but all we hear about in the news is atheists causing problems for others, such as by complaining about religious symbols and artifacts on government property. This leads me to believe atheists are problem causers while others are problem solvers. So let's see an example of atheists doing good, if there is one.
12/19/2012 11:32 AM
a statement on the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe...That makes it a religion by itself

Once again, your definition of religion is too broad. There is no one official definition and you are only using half of the first definition off of one website. If physics and belief in extra terrestrials can be considered religions using your definition, there's something wrong with your definition.

It would be equally valid for me to declare that this is the one and only definition of religion:

re·li·gion  

/ri'lij?n/
 
Noun
  1. The belief in and worship of a superhuman controlling power, esp. a personal God or gods.

Using that definition, atheism is absolutely not a religion.



12/19/2012 11:54 AM
Atheism is not a religion.

It is utterly retarded to say, let alone INSIST, that it is.
12/19/2012 12:17 PM
There is no one official definition and you are only using half of the first definition off of one website.

First, if there is no official definition, then it means nothing. That's BS. It is easy to define religion and I have done it.

Second, I'm using a very logical definition, as it fits for every single religion there is. Not a single religion doesn't fit with that definition. Funny, it fits atheism too. What a shock, since atheism is also a religion.
If physics and belief in extra terrestrials can be considered religions using your definition, there's something wrong with your definition.

No. It merely shows the definition is a broad one.  I have added to that definition to state that any belief system whose established central tenets include the reflection of religious opinions is, quite logically, a religion. Atheism fits within that definition, while extra terrestrials certainly do not, and physics is at the very least questionable in that regard.

The bottom line is that atheism is - at the very least - more like religions than it is the "opposite of religion" as you insist. It is formed out of a common religious belief, while extra terrestrials and physics typically are not (neither of those is based around any belief about god).
12/19/2012 12:24 PM
Here is the definition of religion from the Encyclopedia of Philosophy, It lists traits of religions rather than declaring religion to be one thing or another, arguing that the more markers present in a belief system, the more”religious like” it is:

  • Belief in supernatural beings (gods).
  • A distinction between sacred and profane objects.
  • Ritual acts focused on sacred objects.
  • A moral code believed to be sanctioned by the gods.
  • Characteristically religious feelings (awe, sense of mystery, sense of guilt, adoration), which tend to be aroused in the presence of sacred objects and during the practice of ritual, and which are connected in idea with the gods.
  • Prayer and other forms of communication with gods.
  • A world view, or a general picture of the world as a whole and the place of the individual therein. This picture contains some specification of an over-all purpose or point of the world and an indication of how the individual fits into it.
  • A more or less total organization of one’s life based on the world view.
  • A social group bound together by the above.
Atheism doesn't fit well in any of those traits.



12/19/2012 12:42 PM
Atheism actually DOES fit a number of those traits.

It certainly makes a statement regarding belief in supernatural beings or gods (namely, that they don't exist).

It has a distinction between sacred and profane objects (namely, anything of other religions is profane).

It makes a statement on moral codes sanctioned by the gods (namely, that they do not exist because the gods do not exist).

It makes a statement on prayer and other forms of communication with gods (namely that they are unnecessary because the gods do not exist).

It offers a world view and an overall purpose and how people fit into it (namely, there is no god, so there is no point in including one into a worldview or how people fit into it).

It offers the opportunity for atheists to have "a more or less total organization of one's life" based upon the worldview that there is no god.

It is certainly a social group which is bound together by the belief that there is no god.

All of this ties to the central tenet belief that there is no god or higher power, and all of it fits with exactly what you've stated there. Now you'll proceed to argue that what I've said isn't true to set us off on another tangent, but the proof is right there in YOUR definition. Atheism fits most of what YOU have defined as religion.



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