All Forums > General Discussion > Non-Sports > Real Opinions? Who Do You Vote For And Why?
10/29/2012 7:57 PM
Then what's the solution? There is no private market for senior health insurance. It's not profitable at rates anyone can afford. If Medicare doesn't spend enough already, how do we afford Medicare?

ps - these are legitimate questions that I don't know the answers to, not some sort of set up for an argument.
10/29/2012 8:21 PM
Just on a separate healthcare note, in anticipation of market dynamics, our medical premiums went up 41% for 2013.  Efficiency and competition at its finest.
10/29/2012 9:05 PM (edited)
Posted by bad_luck on 10/29/2012 7:57:00 PM (view original):
Then what's the solution? There is no private market for senior health insurance. It's not profitable at rates anyone can afford. If Medicare doesn't spend enough already, how do we afford Medicare?

ps - these are legitimate questions that I don't know the answers to, not some sort of set up for an argument.
I'm certainly in the minority when I say this.... but I'm for making health insurance more like every other insurance..... THERE FOR EMERGENCIES AND ACCIDENTS ONLY. Your auto insurance doesn't cover routine maintenance like tire rotations and oil changes, you do. Your home owners insurance doesn't cover a new furnace or replacement air filters, you do. Why does health care have to cover preventative visits, contraceptives, etc?.... it should be there for emergencies only. That would help ease the cost burden tremendously.

As far as preventative measures go.... I'd subsidize a salad so it's less expensive than McDonald's burgers. I'd spend money to educate parents that juice contains a ton of sugar which turns into fat.... it's not as healthy as you think it is for your child. We have a tremendous health problem from the growing obesity in this country at every grade level into adulthood. That's the real problem imo.
10/29/2012 9:22 PM

That's partly because everyone has to feel good about themselves.  If you call a fat kid "fat", you're bullying.   Peer pressure works.

PUSSIFICATION OF AMERICA!!!

10/30/2012 10:27 AM
Posted by moy23 on 10/29/2012 9:05:00 PM (view original):
Posted by bad_luck on 10/29/2012 7:57:00 PM (view original):
Then what's the solution? There is no private market for senior health insurance. It's not profitable at rates anyone can afford. If Medicare doesn't spend enough already, how do we afford Medicare?

ps - these are legitimate questions that I don't know the answers to, not some sort of set up for an argument.
I'm certainly in the minority when I say this.... but I'm for making health insurance more like every other insurance..... THERE FOR EMERGENCIES AND ACCIDENTS ONLY. Your auto insurance doesn't cover routine maintenance like tire rotations and oil changes, you do. Your home owners insurance doesn't cover a new furnace or replacement air filters, you do. Why does health care have to cover preventative visits, contraceptives, etc?.... it should be there for emergencies only. That would help ease the cost burden tremendously.

As far as preventative measures go.... I'd subsidize a salad so it's less expensive than McDonald's burgers. I'd spend money to educate parents that juice contains a ton of sugar which turns into fat.... it's not as healthy as you think it is for your child. We have a tremendous health problem from the growing obesity in this country at every grade level into adulthood. That's the real problem imo.
Moy,

The reason it makes sense to cover preventative medicine is because is is much cheaper to provide well care, than it is sick care. Think how much better off we are when dental care insurance started covering preventative things like cleanings, and sealants? Cavities are almost non-existent for a generation of kids who have had proper dental care.

Finding out about health problems when they can more easily be addressed is far less expensive that waiting until a problem someone has the stroke or heart attack or outward signs of cancer, etc.
10/30/2012 10:46 AM
I'm sure panda didn't want this to turn into a healthcare debate but this is one of the problems with rising healthcare/insurance rates.

Man A cuts his hand.   Pretty deep but certainly not life-threatening.  Maybe could use a stitch or two.   He has no insurance.  He dumps some iodine or alcohol on it to cleanse the wound.  Cleans it up, slaps a band-aid on it and goes on with his day.

Man B cuts his hand in the same manner.  He has insurance.   He goes to the doctor.   Doctor dumps some cleansing solution on it, cleans it up, throws a stitch in it, issues pain meds and an antiseptic solution then sets up an appointment 10 days later.

Man A is healed in 13 days.   Man B is healed in 9 days.   Man A spent $2.37 for a dozen band-aids and 1 oz of iodine.   Man B's insurance is billed $483.

The end result is people with insurance will go to the doctor even if it's not necessary simply because they have insurance.
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10/30/2012 12:49 PM
Posted by seamar_116 on 10/30/2012 10:27:00 AM (view original):
Posted by moy23 on 10/29/2012 9:05:00 PM (view original):
Posted by bad_luck on 10/29/2012 7:57:00 PM (view original):
Then what's the solution? There is no private market for senior health insurance. It's not profitable at rates anyone can afford. If Medicare doesn't spend enough already, how do we afford Medicare?

ps - these are legitimate questions that I don't know the answers to, not some sort of set up for an argument.
I'm certainly in the minority when I say this.... but I'm for making health insurance more like every other insurance..... THERE FOR EMERGENCIES AND ACCIDENTS ONLY. Your auto insurance doesn't cover routine maintenance like tire rotations and oil changes, you do. Your home owners insurance doesn't cover a new furnace or replacement air filters, you do. Why does health care have to cover preventative visits, contraceptives, etc?.... it should be there for emergencies only. That would help ease the cost burden tremendously.

As far as preventative measures go.... I'd subsidize a salad so it's less expensive than McDonald's burgers. I'd spend money to educate parents that juice contains a ton of sugar which turns into fat.... it's not as healthy as you think it is for your child. We have a tremendous health problem from the growing obesity in this country at every grade level into adulthood. That's the real problem imo.
Moy,

The reason it makes sense to cover preventative medicine is because is is much cheaper to provide well care, than it is sick care. Think how much better off we are when dental care insurance started covering preventative things like cleanings, and sealants? Cavities are almost non-existent for a generation of kids who have had proper dental care.

Finding out about health problems when they can more easily be addressed is far less expensive that waiting until a problem someone has the stroke or heart attack or outward signs of cancer, etc.
while I don't disagree in theory about preventative care.... the problem is most Americans are not doing anything to prevent themselves from increasing their own health risks....Why should I have to pay, or an insurance company, for an increasingly obese population and/or smokers? all the preventative healthcare in the world will not reduce the longterm risks these people bring on themselves.
10/30/2012 12:59 PM
Fat people ruin everything.
10/30/2012 1:05 PM
Mostly just birthday cakes.  
10/30/2012 1:24 PM
Posted by MikeT23 on 10/30/2012 10:46:00 AM (view original):
I'm sure panda didn't want this to turn into a healthcare debate but this is one of the problems with rising healthcare/insurance rates.

Man A cuts his hand.   Pretty deep but certainly not life-threatening.  Maybe could use a stitch or two.   He has no insurance.  He dumps some iodine or alcohol on it to cleanse the wound.  Cleans it up, slaps a band-aid on it and goes on with his day.

Man B cuts his hand in the same manner.  He has insurance.   He goes to the doctor.   Doctor dumps some cleansing solution on it, cleans it up, throws a stitch in it, issues pain meds and an antiseptic solution then sets up an appointment 10 days later.

Man A is healed in 13 days.   Man B is healed in 9 days.   Man A spent $2.37 for a dozen band-aids and 1 oz of iodine.   Man B's insurance is billed $483.

The end result is people with insurance will go to the doctor even if it's not necessary simply because they have insurance.
I think the problem in that case is the cost of the doctor, not the person using the insurance they (or their employer) pay for.

I'm not a medical professional. If I cut my had deep enough that it probably needs a stitch or two, I'm going to go to the doctor. For several reasons. I want the wound to heal faster. I want a professional to look at it and make sure it really isn't that bad. I want to avoid infection. And, yes, I have insurance so the cost to me personally is relatively small (not including the thousands in insurance premiums I've already paid).
10/30/2012 2:27 PM
Obamacare doesn't address the doctor's fee.   It addresses what the insurance will pay.  Which can lead to a refusal of service.

And, not for nothing, I'm the exact opposite.   If it only needs a couple of stitches, I'm putting a butterfly bandage on it and moving on with my life.   And, yes, I have insurance also.   So I'm sure I view Obamacare, healthcare in general and insurance in a much different light than you,   Which certainly could lead to our difference in opinion on those issues.
10/30/2012 2:36 PM
Shouldn't we address what the insurance will pay? If the doctor is charging $483 to take care of a minor wound that needs nothing more than a butterfly bandage and some disinfectant, the problem isn't Obamacare or someone using their insurance or the unnecessary visit to the doctor...the problem is that the doctor charged $483.
10/30/2012 2:43 PM
Doctors have bills to pay.   In all likelihood, your visit will go thru at least 4 people.    Receptionist, nurse assistant(take your BP, get the details), doctor, check out.   If you require a prescription, a 5th person will call that in.  

To me, it's more of a personal responsibility issue.   Knowing that your insurance is going to be billed an ungodly amount(and will eventually increase rates all) for something you could take care of in 10 minutes and still going to the doctor is just selfish.   "I pay for insurance.  I'm gonna use it!!!" 

Of course, we're no longer required to be personally resposible nor are we taught to be.     But you're suggesting more regulation of doctors.   Bigger government.  
10/30/2012 2:59 PM
I'm not necessarily suggesting that. I don't know what the solution is. Part of the problem is that there really isn't a free market to set prices. Rates are obscured by insurance companies and the doctors themselves; medical procedures (even relatively minor ones) can be complex and require a high degree of education and training.

I think someone who has insurance has fulfilled their end of the personal responsibility bargain. They purchased health coverage and would now like to visit a doctor who willingly accepts that health coverage for a legitimate medical need.
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