All Forums > General Discussion > Non-Sports > Real Opinions? Who Do You Vote For And Why?
10/31/2012 2:28 PM
We know the benefit of going to the doctor.   The question is actually "Is a doctor's visit necessary?" and "How much will I pay for it if it isn't?"

Seriously, which word(s) am I using that confuses you?

I'll use smaller ones and spread them out.   

People....will....be....less....likely.....to....go.....to....the...doctor.....for.....nonsense......if.....it....costs.....them....a.....semi-significant......fee.
10/31/2012 2:36 PM
Really, what's the individual benefit of a doctor visit?

2nd point: WE DON'T WANT TO DISCOURAGE PEOPLE FROM GOING TO THE DOCTOR.

I know you think your argument makes sense. But it doesn't. You are just showing anyone reading this that you have no idea what you are talking about.
10/31/2012 2:39 PM
So, in your world, it's a good thing when people make unnecessary visits to the doctor?
10/31/2012 3:35 PM
In my world, going to the doctor isn't fun. Other than a yearly check up, you go when you are sick or in pain. Discouraging people from going to the doctor when they are sick or in pain is a bad idea. That's not just my opinion, that's the opinion of health insurers, doctors, and other people who possess brains that work.
10/31/2012 3:51 PM
I've had to deal with workman's comp and ridiculous insurance claims.

While I'm sure there are differences from state to state and in different areas, I can tell you that from everything I've looked at worker's compensation is set up to completely **** over injured workers in many various situations. While some workers do get the treatments they need, any of them with serious legitimate injuries may have to fight through the system for years in an attempt to get simple treatment let alone compensation for lost wages or anything else.

I've seen a work injury completely destroy the life of a friend of my father's, NOT because of the injury itself, but because his company fought him every step of the way and with intense pain and no treatment for it, it worked on him mentally. His wife couldn't stand the person it turned him into, so she took the kids and divorced him. He shot himself later in the year, and all because they ****ed him over. He lived with the pain without treatment for several years and then went through all of this because the worker's compensation system was so screwed up it allowed his employer to challenge whether he should receive treatment and prolong his suffering for that long. That is just plain wrong. He was a great friend to my father and our family, and my father said several times (usually under his breath) that the person most responsible for blocking that treatment should have been shot instead.

My main point is that workers compensation is a bad example to be giving if you want to convince people of the merits of your ideas, as that system is incredibly flawed.

Also mike, people get that you think a lot of people go to the doctor when it's not necessary. I happen to disagree and think most people don't do that.
10/31/2012 4:50 PM
Posted by MikeT23 on 10/31/2012 12:18:00 PM (view original):
I actually agree that regular check-ups are a good thing.    I'll try to be more clear.   

More people with insurance = more unnecessary visits to the doctor

Do you agree?
Do we need to start over at this point?
10/31/2012 4:51 PM
bis, you're kinda new so I'll tell you something you may not know.   I don't read long-winded posts like that.   You're an unnamed face on the internet.   I don't give unnamed faces on the internet that much time to make a point.   Be brief.
10/31/2012 5:14 PM (edited)
Posted by MikeT23 on 10/31/2012 4:50:00 PM (view original):
Posted by MikeT23 on 10/31/2012 12:18:00 PM (view original):
I actually agree that regular check-ups are a good thing.    I'll try to be more clear.   

More people with insurance = more unnecessary visits to the doctor

Do you agree?
Do we need to start over at this point?
Sure.

More people having insurance will probably lead to some unnecessary doctors visits. But the benefit of more people having insurance and receiving preventative care and care for minor problems before they become major problems far outweighs the cost of the extra people who didn't have insurance before and now go to the doctor when they just have a cold.

Again, other than a yearly check up, there is no benefit to going to the doctor if you are healthy. You only go if you are sick or in pain. We want people to go when they are sick or in pain and we want people to go to the doctor if the cut on their hand needs stitches.
10/31/2012 5:26 PM
So you eat more at an resteraunt that serves ala carte or at an all you can eat buffet?

Same with health care.
10/31/2012 5:30 PM
Posted by swamphawk22 on 10/31/2012 5:26:00 PM (view original):
So you eat more at an resteraunt that serves ala carte or at an all you can eat buffet?

Same with health care.
No, it's really not the same thing.
10/31/2012 5:36 PM
Posted by bad_luck on 10/31/2012 5:14:00 PM (view original):
Posted by MikeT23 on 10/31/2012 4:50:00 PM (view original):
Posted by MikeT23 on 10/31/2012 12:18:00 PM (view original):
I actually agree that regular check-ups are a good thing.    I'll try to be more clear.   

More people with insurance = more unnecessary visits to the doctor

Do you agree?
Do we need to start over at this point?
Sure.

More people having insurance will probably lead to some unnecessary doctors visits. But the benefit of more people having insurance and receiving preventative care and care for minor problems before they become major problems far outweighs the cost of the extra people who didn't have insurance before and now go to the doctor when they just have a cold.

Again, other than a yearly check up, there is no benefit to going to the doctor if you are healthy. You only go if you are sick or in pain. We want people to go when they are sick or in pain and we want people to go to the doctor if the cut on their hand needs stitches.
Yet people do it now.  They go because they can. 

Man:  "My back is hurting a little.   Gonna go to the doc to make sure I didn't do something when I was raking the yard."  

Doc:  "Yeah, you're 50 and you worked in the yard for 6 hours.   Stop and buy some Icy Hot on the way home."

Doesn't happen if sore back cost $125.   Man waits a couple of days and figures it out.

Multiply that by hundreds of thousands and you'll see why insurance goes up and quality of healthcare goes down.

10/31/2012 5:58 PM
Posted by MikeT23 on 10/31/2012 5:36:00 PM (view original):
Posted by bad_luck on 10/31/2012 5:14:00 PM (view original):
Posted by MikeT23 on 10/31/2012 4:50:00 PM (view original):
Posted by MikeT23 on 10/31/2012 12:18:00 PM (view original):
I actually agree that regular check-ups are a good thing.    I'll try to be more clear.   

More people with insurance = more unnecessary visits to the doctor

Do you agree?
Do we need to start over at this point?
Sure.

More people having insurance will probably lead to some unnecessary doctors visits. But the benefit of more people having insurance and receiving preventative care and care for minor problems before they become major problems far outweighs the cost of the extra people who didn't have insurance before and now go to the doctor when they just have a cold.

Again, other than a yearly check up, there is no benefit to going to the doctor if you are healthy. You only go if you are sick or in pain. We want people to go when they are sick or in pain and we want people to go to the doctor if the cut on their hand needs stitches.
Yet people do it now.  They go because they can. 

Man:  "My back is hurting a little.   Gonna go to the doc to make sure I didn't do something when I was raking the yard."  

Doc:  "Yeah, you're 50 and you worked in the yard for 6 hours.   Stop and buy some Icy Hot on the way home."

Doesn't happen if sore back cost $125.   Man waits a couple of days and figures it out.

Multiply that by hundreds of thousands and you'll see why insurance goes up and quality of healthcare goes down.

We're still going in circles as you pull things out of your ***.

Yes, that happens. People go to the doctor when they have a cold. When they hurt their back. When their foot hurts.

But that $150 or $300 or $450 dollar visit is not what drives premiums up. Those are drops in the bucket compared to premiums collected for those people. What drives rates up are the people that don't go to the doctor for ten years and then get diabetes. Or have a stroke or a heart attack or get diagnosed with stage four cancer. Those bills end up costing insurance companies hundreds of thousands of dollars each at a minimum.

Increasing copays to $125 (or whatever) will only cause more people to skip the doctor more often and has a negative effect.

I'm starting to feel sorry for you.
10/31/2012 6:51 PM
The real issue is why does it cost so much to go to a doctor?

What is driving up costs?

We all hear stories of $125 asprin and $75 tissues.

What makes a business charge so much.

And how much of it is caused by illegals and Lawsuits?
10/31/2012 9:23 PM (edited)
Posted by bad_luck on 10/31/2012 5:58:00 PM (view original):
Posted by MikeT23 on 10/31/2012 5:36:00 PM (view original):
Posted by bad_luck on 10/31/2012 5:14:00 PM (view original):
Posted by MikeT23 on 10/31/2012 4:50:00 PM (view original):
Posted by MikeT23 on 10/31/2012 12:18:00 PM (view original):
I actually agree that regular check-ups are a good thing.    I'll try to be more clear.   

More people with insurance = more unnecessary visits to the doctor

Do you agree?
Do we need to start over at this point?
Sure.

More people having insurance will probably lead to some unnecessary doctors visits. But the benefit of more people having insurance and receiving preventative care and care for minor problems before they become major problems far outweighs the cost of the extra people who didn't have insurance before and now go to the doctor when they just have a cold.

Again, other than a yearly check up, there is no benefit to going to the doctor if you are healthy. You only go if you are sick or in pain. We want people to go when they are sick or in pain and we want people to go to the doctor if the cut on their hand needs stitches.
Yet people do it now.  They go because they can. 

Man:  "My back is hurting a little.   Gonna go to the doc to make sure I didn't do something when I was raking the yard."  

Doc:  "Yeah, you're 50 and you worked in the yard for 6 hours.   Stop and buy some Icy Hot on the way home."

Doesn't happen if sore back cost $125.   Man waits a couple of days and figures it out.

Multiply that by hundreds of thousands and you'll see why insurance goes up and quality of healthcare goes down.

We're still going in circles as you pull things out of your ***.

Yes, that happens. People go to the doctor when they have a cold. When they hurt their back. When their foot hurts.

But that $150 or $300 or $450 dollar visit is not what drives premiums up. Those are drops in the bucket compared to premiums collected for those people. What drives rates up are the people that don't go to the doctor for ten years and then get diabetes. Or have a stroke or a heart attack or get diagnosed with stage four cancer. Those bills end up costing insurance companies hundreds of thousands of dollars each at a minimum.

Increasing copays to $125 (or whatever) will only cause more people to skip the doctor more often and has a negative effect.

I'm starting to feel sorry for you.
there are so many other factors... for example you yourself mentioned a misdiagnosis.... that's not uncommonfor doctors to do. statistically speaking, the numbers of misdiagnosis are astonishing.

I personally don't think health should be an 'encouragement' thing. An intelligent person that values their life should be more than willing to front preventative costs.... otherwise why should insurers insure people that just don't care?

I understand what you are saying... but is it theory or fact? in theory it makes sense.... realistically I'm not sure it helps as much as it drives up costs and clogs the ER.

id have to see the factual cost benefit to agree with you on this one. JMO.
10/31/2012 9:29 PM
Posted by swamphawk22 on 10/31/2012 6:51:00 PM (view original):
The real issue is why does it cost so much to go to a doctor?

What is driving up costs?

We all hear stories of $125 asprin and $75 tissues.

What makes a business charge so much.

And how much of it is caused by illegals and Lawsuits?
These are the questions that Obamacare does not address.  The federal government is now subsidizing the payment for $125 aspirin and $75 tissues.

Obamacare supporters don't seem to care about that.  They just look at "Health care for everyone!  Pre-existing conditions covered!".
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