All Forums > General Discussion > Non-Sports > Today's the day....
11/6/2012 5:17 PM
Posted by bad_luck on 11/6/2012 5:00:00 PM (view original):
Cost and benefit. How many fraudulent votes do we have evidence of? Should we spend a shitload of time, money, and effort to combat a problem that doesn't exist?
How do you know it doesn't exist?  Is is possible that it's so easy to commit and get away with that practically nobody gets caught doing it?
11/6/2012 5:19 PM
Show me some evidence that it does?

(And no, the 290+ electoral college votes that Obama will get today is not evidence of fraud)
11/6/2012 5:20 PM
Posted by tecwrg on 11/6/2012 5:16:00 PM (view original):
Posted by stinenavy on 11/6/2012 4:32:00 PM (view original):
I'm sure Oregon must have widespread voter fraud, right?

I googled and found this from the Christian Science Monitor:

Oregonians passed a referendum in 1998 to institute the vote-by-mail system – with almost 70 percent approval.

Secretary Brown rejects the criticism that mail-in ballots diminish the sense of civic engagement people may feel standing in line with their fellow citizens on Election Day. She says Oregonians have block parties and talk to their neighbors; issues are discussed in churches and synagogues.

“Civic engagement is much more meaningful and expansive when you have a ballot in hand for 2-1/2 weeks,” Brown says. “Election Day is not just one day – it’s several.”

Another criticism of mail-in ballots is that there is more opportunity for voter fraud. Since 2000, 15 million ballots have been cast by mail in Oregon, but there have been only nine convictions of voter fraud, Brown says. The state takes extensive measures to ensure that ballots are secure: each envelope has a unique barcode, election officials verify every signature, and there are cameras in every election office to monitor the counting. People can also check online to make sure their ballot was counted.

So nine people have been caught and convicted?  How many people committed voter fraud via mail-in voting but were not caught?

Are people in other areas of the country prohibited from gathering and discussing the election in groups if they don't have a ballot in their hand?

And in which scenario do you think it's easier to commit and get away with voter fraud: via absentee ballot, or in person with valid photo ID? 
Since most states don't require ID to vote in person, it's easier to commit fraud in person.
11/6/2012 5:22 PM
Was that my question?

Try again.
11/6/2012 5:28 PM
Tec: Is it easier to commit voter fraud in person with ID or by mail when you send your ballot with a DNA sample?
 Me: No one requires a DNA sample
Tec: Irrelevant. Answer the question.


11/6/2012 5:42 PM
Lefties seem to have a huge problem with discussing voter fraud and attempts to suppress it.

Why is that?
11/6/2012 5:48 PM
What does that have to do with absentee ballots?
11/6/2012 6:03 PM
Posted by bad_luck on 11/6/2012 5:14:00 PM (view original):
Posted by deathinahole on 11/6/2012 5:10:00 PM (view original):
The answer, of course, is 1.

Except with vote by mail, it's the unconfirmed fraudulent votes that are the problem. "This one doesn't smell like Fred. Throw it out!"
So how much time and effort is appropriate to attempt to stop one case of voter fraud?
As much as it takes.   Do you understand what people have sacrficed in the past, currently sacrifice and will sacrifice in the future just so people like you can vote?

Or, on the other hand, we could just take a few small steps to prevent it from happening at all.
11/6/2012 6:08 PM
Posted by bad_luck on 11/6/2012 5:48:00 PM (view original):
What does that have to do with absentee ballots?
That's what we were discussing.

ADD?
11/6/2012 6:08 PM
Posted by MikeT23 on 11/6/2012 6:03:00 PM (view original):
Posted by bad_luck on 11/6/2012 5:14:00 PM (view original):
Posted by deathinahole on 11/6/2012 5:10:00 PM (view original):
The answer, of course, is 1.

Except with vote by mail, it's the unconfirmed fraudulent votes that are the problem. "This one doesn't smell like Fred. Throw it out!"
So how much time and effort is appropriate to attempt to stop one case of voter fraud?
As much as it takes.   Do you understand what people have sacrficed in the past, currently sacrifice and will sacrifice in the future just so people like you can vote?

Or, on the other hand, we could just take a few small steps to prevent it from happening at all.
As much as it takes? So we should spare no expense to guarantee there is no voter fraud?

I have no problem with making sure dead people aren't voting, people aren't registered twice, etc. ID is a little more complicated because not everyone has one.

But absentee ballot fraud doesn't seem to be a problem. If you have evidence to the contrary, I'm all ears.
11/6/2012 6:16 PM (edited)
Posted by tecwrg on 11/6/2012 6:08:00 PM (view original):
Posted by bad_luck on 11/6/2012 5:48:00 PM (view original):
What does that have to do with absentee ballots?
That's what we were discussing.

ADD?
So you're saying absentee ballots shouldn't be allowed because there's voter fraud?
11/6/2012 6:12 PM
Posted by bad_luck on 11/6/2012 6:08:00 PM (view original):
Posted by MikeT23 on 11/6/2012 6:03:00 PM (view original):
Posted by bad_luck on 11/6/2012 5:14:00 PM (view original):
Posted by deathinahole on 11/6/2012 5:10:00 PM (view original):
The answer, of course, is 1.

Except with vote by mail, it's the unconfirmed fraudulent votes that are the problem. "This one doesn't smell like Fred. Throw it out!"
So how much time and effort is appropriate to attempt to stop one case of voter fraud?
As much as it takes.   Do you understand what people have sacrficed in the past, currently sacrifice and will sacrifice in the future just so people like you can vote?

Or, on the other hand, we could just take a few small steps to prevent it from happening at all.
As much as it takes? So we should spare no expense to guarantee there is no voter fraud?

I have no problem with making sure dead people aren't voting, people aren't registered twice, etc. ID is a little more complicated because not everyone has one.

But absentee ballot fraud doesn't seem to be a problem. If you have evidence to the contrary, I'm all ears.
Yes, you should spare no expense to guarantee as little voter fraud as possible, bad_putin.
11/6/2012 6:12 PM
If it doesn't concern you that it's easy to vote illegally, then you don't deserve the benefits of the sacrifices Mike's alluding to.  You gotta have ID for kinds of things, but it's only "discriminatory" when it comes to voting.  It's twisted logic, if it's even logic at all. 

Lefties compain about special interests influencing politics, but don't care if illegal voters control who gets in?  How the he** does that make sense?
11/6/2012 6:19 PM
Posted by deathinahole on 11/6/2012 6:12:00 PM (view original):
Posted by bad_luck on 11/6/2012 6:08:00 PM (view original):
Posted by MikeT23 on 11/6/2012 6:03:00 PM (view original):
Posted by bad_luck on 11/6/2012 5:14:00 PM (view original):
Posted by deathinahole on 11/6/2012 5:10:00 PM (view original):
The answer, of course, is 1.

Except with vote by mail, it's the unconfirmed fraudulent votes that are the problem. "This one doesn't smell like Fred. Throw it out!"
So how much time and effort is appropriate to attempt to stop one case of voter fraud?
As much as it takes.   Do you understand what people have sacrficed in the past, currently sacrifice and will sacrifice in the future just so people like you can vote?

Or, on the other hand, we could just take a few small steps to prevent it from happening at all.
As much as it takes? So we should spare no expense to guarantee there is no voter fraud?

I have no problem with making sure dead people aren't voting, people aren't registered twice, etc. ID is a little more complicated because not everyone has one.

But absentee ballot fraud doesn't seem to be a problem. If you have evidence to the contrary, I'm all ears.
Yes, you should spare no expense to guarantee as little voter fraud as possible, bad_putin.
So, for example, if a procedure costs $100 million dollars per ballot but can guarantee that there won't be 1 fraudulent ballot, you'd say we should do it?
11/6/2012 6:29 PM
So you have no problem with a "little" voter fraud?

Do you understand democracy?
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