All Forums > General Discussion > Non-Sports > High-Capacity Assault Weapons
12/17/2012 10:14 AM
Posted by tecwrg on 12/17/2012 10:02:00 AM (view original):
Posted by MikeT23 on 12/17/2012 9:54:00 AM (view original):
So I assume you're suggesting that only single shot guns should be available to the public.   Correct?
I'm not suggesting anything about exactly where the line should be drawn.  I don't have the answers.  I'm just suggesting that it seems reasonable that it should be drawn somewhere other than where it is today.
I've already said I have no issue with a ban on HCAW.    But I've also asked, if the intention is to stop insane individuals from mass killings, where do you stop banning guns?   I have no idea how many shots were fired in CT.   But I suggest two .38 caliber guns with 7 shot clips would allow for 14 shots in a matter of seconds.   I'd also suggest that clips can be reloaded in just a few seconds.   An unskilled gunman should be able to get off at least 42 shots in a minute under those conditions.
12/17/2012 10:22 AM
FWIW, I think these things are kneejerk reactions to a tragedy.   You can't fix crazy and the worst time to attempt it is after something terrible happens.
12/17/2012 10:25 AM
Posted by MikeT23 on 12/17/2012 10:09:00 AM (view original):

A quick check indicates that wild boar have been seen in CT.   As have bears and mountain lions.   You don't get to decide where they go so I guess your children are officially forbidden to go outside.

I'd like to think you wouldn't be taking your children to a place where there exists a reasonable possibility of being killed by a crazy individual.   Unfortunately, you don't get to decide where they go either.

Reasonable possibility.  Such as "I've seen or heard of wild boars/bears/mountain lions in my neighborhood within the last couple of days".

Random acts are just that . . . random.  You can't live your life in fear of randomness.  But you can and should be cautious when knowledge and reasonable understanding of a situation warrants it.

12/17/2012 10:28 AM
Posted by MikeT23 on 12/17/2012 10:14:00 AM (view original):
Posted by tecwrg on 12/17/2012 10:02:00 AM (view original):
Posted by MikeT23 on 12/17/2012 9:54:00 AM (view original):
So I assume you're suggesting that only single shot guns should be available to the public.   Correct?
I'm not suggesting anything about exactly where the line should be drawn.  I don't have the answers.  I'm just suggesting that it seems reasonable that it should be drawn somewhere other than where it is today.
I've already said I have no issue with a ban on HCAW.    But I've also asked, if the intention is to stop insane individuals from mass killings, where do you stop banning guns?   I have no idea how many shots were fired in CT.   But I suggest two .38 caliber guns with 7 shot clips would allow for 14 shots in a matter of seconds.   I'd also suggest that clips can be reloaded in just a few seconds.   An unskilled gunman should be able to get off at least 42 shots in a minute under those conditions.
The classroom where the most carnage occured involved a teacher, an aide, and fourteen 6 and 7 year old children all huddled together.  The medical examiner said that each of the children had been hit by between 3 and 11 rounds each.
12/17/2012 10:33 AM
Posted by MikeT23 on 12/17/2012 10:22:00 AM (view original):
FWIW, I think these things are kneejerk reactions to a tragedy.   You can't fix crazy and the worst time to attempt it is after something terrible happens.
Agreed.

You can't fix crazy.  But you can try to figure out if you can reduce/minimize the amount of damage that can be done by an individual who snaps.

Newtown probably still would have happened this past Friday.  But maybe instead of 26 dead, it would have been 13 dead.  Still horrible, but that's still a number of parents, grandparents, siblings and classmates who wouldn't be burying family and friends this week.

12/17/2012 10:34 AM
Posted by tecwrg on 12/17/2012 10:28:00 AM (view original):
Posted by MikeT23 on 12/17/2012 10:14:00 AM (view original):
Posted by tecwrg on 12/17/2012 10:02:00 AM (view original):
Posted by MikeT23 on 12/17/2012 9:54:00 AM (view original):
So I assume you're suggesting that only single shot guns should be available to the public.   Correct?
I'm not suggesting anything about exactly where the line should be drawn.  I don't have the answers.  I'm just suggesting that it seems reasonable that it should be drawn somewhere other than where it is today.
I've already said I have no issue with a ban on HCAW.    But I've also asked, if the intention is to stop insane individuals from mass killings, where do you stop banning guns?   I have no idea how many shots were fired in CT.   But I suggest two .38 caliber guns with 7 shot clips would allow for 14 shots in a matter of seconds.   I'd also suggest that clips can be reloaded in just a few seconds.   An unskilled gunman should be able to get off at least 42 shots in a minute under those conditions.
The classroom where the most carnage occured involved a teacher, an aide, and fourteen 6 and 7 year old children all huddled together.  The medical examiner said that each of the children had been hit by between 3 and 11 rounds each.
****, this is horrible but, since it's a discussion, 16 people huddled together is like shooting fish in a barrel.   I don't think it mattered what kind of gun he used.  It's not like a gang of 6 year olds were going to charge him while he changed clips.
12/17/2012 10:49 AM (edited)
And I'll admit that I'm taking this personally.  Newtown is only an hour southwest of where I live.  it hit too close to home.  I drove through Newtown on Saturday on the interstate while driving to New York and Pennsylvania.  On the way home Saturday evening, I saw an area a couple of hundred yards off the highway that was all lit up that I'm pretty sure was the school after I checked Google Maps when I got home.

Local TV coverage has been non-stop the past three days.  While watching the coverage on Friday night, as they described the community of Newtown, the size of the town, the demographics of the people who live there, the reputation of the town and the community, I turned to my wife and said that they could be talking about the town in which we live.  I have a fifth grader who goes to a school that looks very much like Sandy Hook Elementary.  He's had teachers who were just like the ones who were massacred on Friday.  It could have been my town.  It scares the hell out of me.
12/17/2012 10:45 AM
Unfortunately, the only real option to reduce the number of casualities in situations like these is armed security.   Much like planes have air marshals, I think we've reached a point where a large gathering of people will require trained, armed security.   Not a beefy bouncer but someone who has been trained to take out individuals like Lanza with a single shot.

Sad that this is where we're at but I think that's the answer. 
12/17/2012 10:51 AM
Posted by MikeT23 on 12/17/2012 10:45:00 AM (view original):
Unfortunately, the only real option to reduce the number of casualities in situations like these is armed security.   Much like planes have air marshals, I think we've reached a point where a large gathering of people will require trained, armed security.   Not a beefy bouncer but someone who has been trained to take out individuals like Lanza with a single shot.

Sad that this is where we're at but I think that's the answer. 
I'd be good with that.
12/17/2012 10:55 AM
CHARGE $200 PER BULLET, PEOPLE WILL BE LESS APT TO WASTE EM

Like any economic ceiling placed upon a commodity, all this does is ensure that those who possess the commodity in question (in this case, bullets) are those who can afford it, i.e. wealthier individuals. That doesn't mean waste won't occur, as those wealthy enough to sufficiently overcome the level of financial "burden" can still be "wasteful" with the commodity to the extent they have wealth to do so.

In other words, this doesn't work because wealthy people could "waste em" and do what they want anyway.
Unfortunately, the only real option to reduce the number of casualities in situations like these is armed security.   Much like planes have air marshals, I think we've reached a point where a large gathering of people will require trained, armed security.   Not a beefy bouncer but someone who has been trained to take out individuals like Lanza with a single shot.

Do you realize how difficult this would be to install on a massive scale, such as doing so at every school in every district in every state in the country? Without even considering the cost (which would be ENORMOUS), it may be difficult to find enough individuals with proper training. There are just too many schools.

For example, a quick internet check says there are 500 school districts in the state of Pennsylvania (picking a state at random). That's one fairly large state. There are probably 2-3 individual schools in each district on average, but even if it's just 2, that's 1,000 schools in ONE STATE to put multiple properly trained and armed guards at. Some states are smaller, but still, if you extrapolate it out, that's perhaps 50,000 school buildings in the country.

How many guards are necessary? One probably isn't enough. Say a minimum of two guards at each school, now you're looking at 100,000 properly trained and armed individuals to guard the nation's schools. That's difficult enough to find the right people to trust with being armed and dealing with protecting the nation's children, and again, never mind the enormous cost of paying all these people and making sure they are properly trained and stay that way.
12/17/2012 10:56 AM
Posted by tecwrg on 12/17/2012 10:49:00 AM (view original):
And I'll admit that I'm taking this personally.  Newtown is only an hour southwest of where I live.  it hit too close to home.  I drove through Newtown on Saturday on the interstate while driving to New York and Pennsylvania.  On the way home Saturday evening, I saw an area a couple of hundred yards off the highway that was all lit up that I'm pretty sure was the school after I checked Google Maps when I got home.

Local TV coverage has been non-stop the past three days.  While watching the coverage on Friday night, as they described the community of Newtown, the size of the town, the demographics of the people who live there, the reputation of the town and the community, I turned to my wife and said that they could be talking about the town in which we live.  I have a fifth grader who goes to a school that looks very much like Sandy Hook Elementary.  He's had teachers who were just like the ones who were massacred on Friday.  It could have been my town.  It scares the hell out of me.

This is why times like these are the worst times to attempt to resolve gun issues.   Emotions are understandably high.   I would expect a relative of a victim to punch me in the face if I said I needed a powerful, HC handgun to shoot wild boar charging my dogs. 

12/17/2012 10:57 AM
And taking this off on a slight tangent, there was a post that was attributed to Morgan Freeman that was going viral around the internet over the weekend that blasted the media's role in incidents like this.

To summarize: the media sensationalizes these incidents.  It makes for compelling television.  He mentioned that almost everybody recognizes the names of Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold, but nobody will remember the names of any of the 13 people they killed at Columbine.  Now, when somebody snaps, they feel compelled to go out in a "big" way, so that they too will have their names long-remembered.

There's a lot of blame to go around.  No easy answers.

12/17/2012 10:58 AM
Posted by tecwrg on 12/17/2012 10:51:00 AM (view original):
Posted by MikeT23 on 12/17/2012 10:45:00 AM (view original):
Unfortunately, the only real option to reduce the number of casualities in situations like these is armed security.   Much like planes have air marshals, I think we've reached a point where a large gathering of people will require trained, armed security.   Not a beefy bouncer but someone who has been trained to take out individuals like Lanza with a single shot.

Sad that this is where we're at but I think that's the answer. 
I'd be good with that.
I'm not sure I am.   Having legal firearms on school grounds seems like a disaster waiting to happen.  But, the alternative we have now, isn't the answer either.
12/17/2012 11:01 AM
Posted by MikeT23 on 12/17/2012 10:56:00 AM (view original):
Posted by tecwrg on 12/17/2012 10:49:00 AM (view original):
And I'll admit that I'm taking this personally.  Newtown is only an hour southwest of where I live.  it hit too close to home.  I drove through Newtown on Saturday on the interstate while driving to New York and Pennsylvania.  On the way home Saturday evening, I saw an area a couple of hundred yards off the highway that was all lit up that I'm pretty sure was the school after I checked Google Maps when I got home.

Local TV coverage has been non-stop the past three days.  While watching the coverage on Friday night, as they described the community of Newtown, the size of the town, the demographics of the people who live there, the reputation of the town and the community, I turned to my wife and said that they could be talking about the town in which we live.  I have a fifth grader who goes to a school that looks very much like Sandy Hook Elementary.  He's had teachers who were just like the ones who were massacred on Friday.  It could have been my town.  It scares the hell out of me.

This is why times like these are the worst times to attempt to resolve gun issues.   Emotions are understandably high.   I would expect a relative of a victim to punch me in the face if I said I needed a powerful, HC handgun to shoot wild boar charging my dogs. 

Which is why I'm not trying to resolve the issues.  I'm just asking the questions for discussion.
12/17/2012 11:03 AM
I wasn't necessarily addressing you with that.    I felt Obama sounded far too political when he addressed a memorial gathering in Newtown last night.  He really seemed to be pushing gun control.   Not the time nor the place, IMO.
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