check out the article about that guy ratliffe who was shot..on aug 11 he tweeted that he went to the movies with his pistol in his pocket and he prayed that someone would pull a batman..that guy was being honest. he wanted to kill someone in self-defense..there are a lot of gun "enthusiasts" who love guns because they are hostile and violent people.they daydream about being involved in gunfights..unforunately the reality is not as pleasant.

Posted by bad_luck on 1/10/2013 6:19:00 PM (view original):

He is purely agenda driven. He wants to chage the very nature of America to be more in line with Euro-Socialism. 

Really? When did he say that? Because, based on his policy, he seems like a center-left Democrat.

Really?  Obamacare isn't a clear step towards a Eurpean-style Welfare State?  I'm gonna have to call bullshit on that one...

Posted by dahsdebater on 1/10/2013 10:58:00 PM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 1/10/2013 6:19:00 PM (view original):

He is purely agenda driven. He wants to chage the very nature of America to be more in line with Euro-Socialism. 

Really? When did he say that? Because, based on his policy, he seems like a center-left Democrat.

Really?  Obamacare isn't a clear step towards a Eurpean-style Welfare State?  I'm gonna have to call bullshit on that one...

The bill was essentially written by Republicans and doesn't contain a public option. It's pretty far from what they have in Europe.

Depends where in Europe...

Posted by swamphawk22 on 1/10/2013 2:30:00 PM (view original):
Of all the faults I can attribute to Obama worrying about his legacy isnt one of them. He is purely agenda driven. He wants to chage the very nature of America to be more in line with Euro-Socialism.

Also what would be the irrepadarable damage that could be deomonstrated to get the injunction?

I realize this isnt likely. It seems like Obama would never do this.

It didnt seem like Biden was going rogue when he made the comment. Almost like it was planned to put it out there and use Biden as a shield.

So what is the point?

Euro-Socialism? What's the name of the planet you are living on?? Ever heard about Perestroika, Glasnost, the fall of the Berlin Wall etc.? Aside from a few autocratic tyrants in dubious east European countries, who pretend to be 'socialists', where is socialism in Europe?

Posted by rcrusso on 1/12/2013 3:21:00 PM (view original):

Exactly.

Posted by warrior0510 on 1/12/2013 2:25:00 PM (view original):

Posted by swamphawk22 on 1/10/2013 2:30:00 PM (view original):
Of all the faults I can attribute to Obama worrying about his legacy isnt one of them. He is purely agenda driven. He wants to chage the very nature of America to be more in line with Euro-Socialism.

Also what would be the irrepadarable damage that could be deomonstrated to get the injunction?

I realize this isnt likely. It seems like Obama would never do this.

It didnt seem like Biden was going rogue when he made the comment. Almost like it was planned to put it out there and use Biden as a shield.

So what is the point?

Euro-Socialism? What's the name of the planet you are living on?? Ever heard about Perestroika, Glasnost, the fall of the Berlin Wall etc.? Aside from a few autocratic tyrants in dubious east European countries, who pretend to be 'socialists', where is socialism in Europe?

I think you are confusing Communism and Socialism.

European style Socialism is where the government takes a lot of your money and gives you what it thinks you need.

Sweden is kind of the poster child.

Posted by bigalric on 1/12/2013 3:35:00 PM (view original):

Posted by rcrusso on 1/12/2013 3:21:00 PM (view original):

Exactly.

This is a stupid argument.  Jefferson thought we should have a revolution and change governments once a decade or so.  If they'd known about assault weapons, they would want them to be legal.  I'm not saying that this is a justification for making them legal, the number of amendments and evolving interpretation of non-amended portions of the Constitution provide pretty good evidence for the fact that we have recognized that not everything the Founding Fathers envisioned worked perfectly in the modern world.  But the argument that just because they didn't know what kinds of guns we would have, their belief that guns should be legal is now moot, is a very poor argument.  I hold firm in the belief that the founding fathers would have WANTED assault weapons to be legal.

I also think that it is unavoidably true that, technically speaking, any assault weapons ban - including the one we already had, and in fact even restrictions on private ownership of tanks, aircraft, and other high-level military equipment in place now - are unconstitutional.  Everyone shorthands the 2nd amendment to "right to bear arms," and it's always talked about in terms of guns.  However, the true wording - "the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed" suggests that any restriction on the access of the people to military technology is distinctly and objectively unconstitutional.  Infringed is basically analogous here to "encroached upon."  The 2nd amendment doesn't say people have the right to carry guns.  It says people have the right to any kind of weapon.

As I said above, the fact that the founding fathers envisioned one thing doesn't necessarily make it right for the modern world.  I don't think it's bad that people can't own tanks.  But I think it's really hard to argue that it isn't unconstitutional.  People fight for hours over whether the "right to bear arms" means any arms, but the real wording is far less ambiguous on that point...

It isnt ambiguous at all.

Arms does not mean any weapon. It means personal arms.

It says keep and BEAR arms.

Bear means to carry. The 2nd amendment applies to personal weapons.

Posted by swamphawk22 on 1/12/2013 6:41:00 PM (view original):

Posted by warrior0510 on 1/12/2013 2:25:00 PM (view original):

Posted by swamphawk22 on 1/10/2013 2:30:00 PM (view original):
Of all the faults I can attribute to Obama worrying about his legacy isnt one of them. He is purely agenda driven. He wants to chage the very nature of America to be more in line with Euro-Socialism.

Also what would be the irrepadarable damage that could be deomonstrated to get the injunction?

I realize this isnt likely. It seems like Obama would never do this.

It didnt seem like Biden was going rogue when he made the comment. Almost like it was planned to put it out there and use Biden as a shield.

So what is the point?

Euro-Socialism? What's the name of the planet you are living on?? Ever heard about Perestroika, Glasnost, the fall of the Berlin Wall etc.? Aside from a few autocratic tyrants in dubious east European countries, who pretend to be 'socialists', where is socialism in Europe?

I think you are confusing Communism and Socialism.

European style Socialism is where the government takes a lot of your money and gives you what it thinks you need.

Sweden is kind of the poster child.

I guess you're in need of some important informations:

Prime Minister in Sweden since 2006 is Fredrik Reinfeld from the Conservative Party, which was in a coalition with the Liberal Party, the Center Party (the party of farmers and small business) and the Christian Democrats until 2010 and since then is the only party represented in the government.

Probably you should take some classes in political science to get definitions of political parties and ideologies right.

Following your definition every government that orders locust billionaires like Mitt Romney to pay more than 13% income taxes is 'socialist'.

1 The reality of what Sweden has become isnt what that left sees. They are talking about the mythology of Sweden. The story that I grew up with that Sweden is a utopia.

2 Mitt Romney does have to pay more than 13% INCOME tax. He pays less for capital gains. You might need to take a class in economics to get defintions of types of taxes.

Posted by swamphawk22 on 1/13/2013 2:25:00 PM (view original):
1 The reality of what Sweden has become isnt what that left sees. They are talking about the mythology of Sweden. The story that I grew up with that Sweden is a utopia.

2 Mitt Romney does have to pay more than 13% INCOME tax. He pays less for capital gains. You might need to take a class in economics to get defintions of types of taxes.

'The reality of what Sweden has become isnt what that left sees.'

So you are an expert in swedish affairs???


'They are talking about the mythology of Sweden.'

Really don't know what you mean to say with this mysterious sentence. Who is 'they'? And where are 'they' talking like that?


'The story that I grew up with that Sweden is a utopia.' What do you want to say? You grew up with stories about Sweden or about Utopia? And who told you those stories?