3/29/2013 1:02 PM
Posted by tecwrg on 3/29/2013 12:45:00 PM (view original):
Posted by bad_luck on 3/29/2013 12:34:00 PM (view original):
Posted by tecwrg on 3/29/2013 12:32:00 PM (view original):
Posted by bad_luck on 3/29/2013 12:23:00 PM (view original):
Posted by tecwrg on 3/29/2013 12:21:00 PM (view original):
Posted by burnsy483 on 3/29/2013 12:12:00 PM (view original):
Getting married makes people happy.  Why do you want to keep people from being happy?  If it doesn't affect you, or any heterosexual personally, what does it matter?
Marriage doesn't keep people happy.  Being in love with somebody makes people happy.  A legal certificate does not enhance that.
So you're saying marriage itself isn't important to you, just the love of the relationship?
Love without marriage is much more meaningful than a marriage without love.  Or the inclusion of a notarized piece of paper.
OK.

Does marriage matter to you? Would you be just as happy if you weren't allowed to marry your wife? Or does that piece of paper mean something?
I believe my relationship with my wife would be just as meaningful without a piece of paper.  If it wasn't, then there would be something fundamentally wrong with our relationship.
So if the piece of paper isn't a big deal, why does it matter if the definition changes?
3/29/2013 1:02 PM
Posted by tecwrg on 3/29/2013 12:09:00 PM (view original):
Posted by bad_luck on 3/29/2013 12:05:00 PM (view original):
Posted by tecwrg on 3/29/2013 12:01:00 PM (view original):
Posted by The Taint on 3/29/2013 11:52:00 AM (view original):
Was illegal in parts of the US before 1967.
Has the U.S. been around for tens of thousands of years?

I'm talking about human history, not U.S. history.
Is that really relevant, though? And does it matter that the definition of marriage will change? It won't change for your marriage. Or mine. Or any other heterosexuals. The only people this change will affect are homosexuals.
It doesn't affect me personally, no.  Does that mean that I cannot have or express an opinion?  if it doesn't affect you, they should you be expressing your opinion?

Abortion doesn't affect me either.  Should I not have an opinion on that?

Am I only allowed to have opinions on things that affect me personally?
See mike? It doesn't affect him personally.
3/29/2013 1:10 PM
I'm attracted to women. I didn't choose to be attracted to women. That's just the way I'm wired.

Actually, who you are attracted to is a function of MANY things, and the exact "recipe" isn't fully known. However, some of it is biological, while a great deal of it is also a product of how you were raised and your social environment.

So while you may not choose all of the things you find attractive in others, you can and DO choose who you are with in either romantic and/or sexual situations, and that defines your sexual preference at any given time.
Since the gay people that I know have told me that it's the same for them and that if given a choice they'd be straight, I assume that being gay isn't a choice.
It's absolutely a choice. All you have to do to not be gay is to choose not to be involved in romantic and/or sexual situations with someone of the same gender as yourself.
Just like being straight isn't a choice.
Yes, it is. You choose to be with someone of the opposite sex when it comes to romance or sexual activity. It's not a difficult concept at all.
3/29/2013 1:10 PM
Posted by bad_luck on 3/29/2013 1:00:00 PM (view original):
Posted by MikeT23 on 3/29/2013 12:53:00 PM (view original):
Posted by bad_luck on 3/29/2013 12:41:00 PM (view original):
Posted by MikeT23 on 3/29/2013 12:24:00 PM (view original):
Posted by burnsy483 on 3/29/2013 12:19:00 PM (view original):
Posted by MikeT23 on 3/29/2013 12:16:00 PM (view original):
Posted by burnsy483 on 3/29/2013 12:12:00 PM (view original):
Getting married makes people happy.  Why do you want to keep people from being happy?  If it doesn't affect you, or any heterosexual personally, what does it matter?
I'm happy as **** when I chug Jack Daniels and drive 100 MPH down a deserted highway.

Why can't I?
You're consistent in being a moron, yes.

If it's truly deserted, and nobody's around, and you can't hurt yourself or anyone else, go nuts.  I don't care.
I don't care if gays marry.   I'm just saying "Makes people happy" is a dumbass way to determine laws. 

Extremely dumbass. 

Which, btw, fits you like a glove.
You know there are other considerations that differ, right?

Allowing gays to marry makes them happy and has zero effect on anyone else. The same can't be said for driving drunk at 100 MPH, whether or not you think the highway is deserted.

I'm not sure you get to determine what effects everyone else.

I dare say tec is offended by gay marriage.   Would you say he's affected?   I don't care if you agree with him, think he's irrational or if he's just a gay hater.   Do you think he's affected in some way?

He already said he wouldn't be affected.
I dare say arguing on the internet on Good Friday because you don't like something is affected.  

Maybe tec just doesn't understand how he's affected.
3/29/2013 1:12 PM
Posted by bistiza on 3/29/2013 1:10:00 PM (view original):
I'm attracted to women. I didn't choose to be attracted to women. That's just the way I'm wired.

Actually, who you are attracted to is a function of MANY things, and the exact "recipe" isn't fully known. However, some of it is biological, while a great deal of it is also a product of how you were raised and your social environment.

So while you may not choose all of the things you find attractive in others, you can and DO choose who you are with in either romantic and/or sexual situations, and that defines your sexual preference at any given time.
Since the gay people that I know have told me that it's the same for them and that if given a choice they'd be straight, I assume that being gay isn't a choice.
It's absolutely a choice. All you have to do to not be gay is to choose not to be involved in romantic and/or sexual situations with someone of the same gender as yourself.
Just like being straight isn't a choice.
Yes, it is. You choose to be with someone of the opposite sex when it comes to romance or sexual activity. It's not a difficult concept at all.
I disagree. I don't think you have any control over which sex you are attracted to.

You have control over whether or not you act on it, of course, but I don't have any interest in telling someone else they can't marry the person they love.
3/29/2013 1:15 PM
Posted by MikeT23 on 3/29/2013 1:10:00 PM (view original):
Posted by bad_luck on 3/29/2013 1:00:00 PM (view original):
Posted by MikeT23 on 3/29/2013 12:53:00 PM (view original):
Posted by bad_luck on 3/29/2013 12:41:00 PM (view original):
Posted by MikeT23 on 3/29/2013 12:24:00 PM (view original):
Posted by burnsy483 on 3/29/2013 12:19:00 PM (view original):
Posted by MikeT23 on 3/29/2013 12:16:00 PM (view original):
Posted by burnsy483 on 3/29/2013 12:12:00 PM (view original):
Getting married makes people happy.  Why do you want to keep people from being happy?  If it doesn't affect you, or any heterosexual personally, what does it matter?
I'm happy as **** when I chug Jack Daniels and drive 100 MPH down a deserted highway.

Why can't I?
You're consistent in being a moron, yes.

If it's truly deserted, and nobody's around, and you can't hurt yourself or anyone else, go nuts.  I don't care.
I don't care if gays marry.   I'm just saying "Makes people happy" is a dumbass way to determine laws. 

Extremely dumbass. 

Which, btw, fits you like a glove.
You know there are other considerations that differ, right?

Allowing gays to marry makes them happy and has zero effect on anyone else. The same can't be said for driving drunk at 100 MPH, whether or not you think the highway is deserted.

I'm not sure you get to determine what effects everyone else.

I dare say tec is offended by gay marriage.   Would you say he's affected?   I don't care if you agree with him, think he's irrational or if he's just a gay hater.   Do you think he's affected in some way?

He already said he wouldn't be affected.
I dare say arguing on the internet on Good Friday because you don't like something is affected.  

Maybe tec just doesn't understand how he's affected.
You "dare say?" (twice!?) What is this, 1860's Georgia?

Tec says he isn't affected. I'll take his word for it.
3/29/2013 1:27 PM
I disagree. I don't think you have any control over which sex you are attracted to.

There are many things that can (and do) impact who you are attracted to, and I agree you do not choose how most of those impacts affects you.

What you DO choose is who you are with in a romantic and/or sexual situation.
You have control over whether or not you act on it, of course, but I don't have any interest in telling someone else they can't marry the person they love.

You can't love someone if you haven't already attempted to be with them in a romantic and/or sexual relationship of some sort.

That attempt is a CHOICE you make, and (presumably) no one is forcing you to choose who you are with romantically or sexually.
3/29/2013 1:29 PM
Posted by bistiza on 3/29/2013 1:27:00 PM (view original):
I disagree. I don't think you have any control over which sex you are attracted to.

There are many things that can (and do) impact who you are attracted to, and I agree you do not choose how most of those impacts affects you.

What you DO choose is who you are with in a romantic and/or sexual situation.
You have control over whether or not you act on it, of course, but I don't have any interest in telling someone else they can't marry the person they love.

You can't love someone if you haven't already attempted to be with them in a romantic and/or sexual relationship of some sort.

That attempt is a CHOICE you make, and (presumably) no one is forcing you to choose who you are with romantically or sexually.
So we agree that being attracted to a person of the same sex isn't a choice?
3/29/2013 1:45 PM
****, this blew up some.

"...and the pursuit of happiness," right, Mike?  If you know that the road is deserted, go nuts, nobody stops you or cares. If homosexuals marrying each other makes them happy, go nuts, it affects nobody.  If it affects you, it might say something about you as a person.  It doesn't seem to affect anyone here who is against gay marriage, so I don't see an issue among those arguing.

Homosexuality isn't a choice.  If you believe it is, explain why someone would choose that.

3/29/2013 2:00 PM
So we agree that being attracted to a person of the same sex isn't a choice?
Like any attraction, it is influenced by a number of factors. You cannot choose how some of those factors influence you, so to that extent attraction is not a choice. However, you can choose how you respond to other factors, so choice IS involved to some extent.

Additionally, you do not have to be with every person you find attractive or even with someone from the group of people you find attractive. You can choose to be with someone else or no one at all if you wish.

Since you choose who you are with in a romantic and/or sexual circumstance, then ultimately your choices are what determines your sexual preference.
Homosexuality isn't a choice.  If you believe it is, explain why someone would choose that.
Under any kind of normal circumstances, no one is forcing anyone to be in a romantic and/or sexual encounter with any other particular person. You choose who you are with for whatever reasons you wish - no matter what those reasons are, none of it makes it less of a choice.

There are so many different things people choose when it comes to relationships and sexuality - trying to "explain" them all doesn't have anything to do with the fact that carrying those acts out is a choice that person is making.

3/29/2013 2:06 PM
When I say "homosexuality" I mean being attracted to people of the same sex. That's not a choice.
3/29/2013 2:06 PM
Posted by bistiza on 3/29/2013 2:00:00 PM (view original):
So we agree that being attracted to a person of the same sex isn't a choice?
Like any attraction, it is influenced by a number of factors. You cannot choose how some of those factors influence you, so to that extent attraction is not a choice. However, you can choose how you respond to other factors, so choice IS involved to some extent.

Additionally, you do not have to be with every person you find attractive or even with someone from the group of people you find attractive. You can choose to be with someone else or no one at all if you wish.

Since you choose who you are with in a romantic and/or sexual circumstance, then ultimately your choices are what determines your sexual preference.
Homosexuality isn't a choice.  If you believe it is, explain why someone would choose that.
Under any kind of normal circumstances, no one is forcing anyone to be in a romantic and/or sexual encounter with any other particular person. You choose who you are with for whatever reasons you wish - no matter what those reasons are, none of it makes it less of a choice.

There are so many different things people choose when it comes to relationships and sexuality - trying to "explain" them all doesn't have anything to do with the fact that carrying those acts out is a choice that person is making.

Are you sexually attracted to men?

Assuming the answer is no, could you ever be happy in a romantic relationship with a man?
3/29/2013 2:24 PM
When I say "homosexuality" I mean being attracted to people of the same sex. That's not a choice.
I disagree 100 percent with that definition of "homosexuality".

Your sexual preference is defined when you choose who you will be involved with in a romantic or sexual way, and it can change over time depending upon the choices you continue to make.

Who you are attracted to doesn't matter - your actions do.

If you are involved romantically and/or sexually with someone of the opposite gender, you are heterosexual; of the same gender then you are homosexual; of both, bisexual. If those choices change, so does your sexual preference.
Are you sexually attracted to men? Assuming the answer is no, could you ever be happy in a romantic relationship with a man?

As I said, attraction is irrelevant to defining my sexual preference, which is determined by my choosing to have romantic and/or sexual relationships with other people.

So while I may be happy to be with a woman, I could still choose to be with a man in a romantic or sexual way, thereby making me either bisexual or homosexual (depending upon whether I continue to be involved with only men or with men and women).
3/29/2013 2:28 PM
If you are attracted to members of the same sex, that's not a choice.
3/29/2013 2:29 PM
No, I'm asking a very specific question.

Are you sexually attracted to men?

(Ignore whether or not you have or will ever act on that attraction)
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