Actions are what matter - attraction is irrelevant.

It doesn't matter whether you like it or not.

You can't say an action didn't happen because you didn't enjoy it enough.

If I eat broccoli and don't like it, that doesn't mean I suddenly didn't eat the broccoli. Whether I like it or not doesn't change the fact that I ate it. I'm still a broccoli eater whether I loved it, hated it, or didn't care either way.

Posted by bistiza on 4/1/2013 1:07:00 PM (view original):
Actions are what matter - attraction is irrelevant.

It doesn't matter whether you like it or not.

You can't say an action didn't happen because you didn't enjoy it enough.

If I eat broccoli and don't like it, that doesn't mean I suddenly didn't eat the broccoli. Whether I like it or not doesn't change the fact that I ate it. I'm still a broccoli eater whether I loved it, hated it, or didn't care either way.

Well this is clearly going nowhere.

You knew you were straight before you ever had sex, right? Back when you were a freshman in high school you were jerking it to straight porn, right?

So was I.

Plenty of gay people knew the were gay when they were kids. Before they had ever had sex with anyone.

You knew you were straight before you ever had sex, right?

Yes, but only because I'd already engaged in other romantic activities with someone of the opposite sex. Still, prior to that there would have been no way to establish my being straight. As I've said time and time again, attraction establishes nothing.

Back when you were a freshman in high school you were jerking it to straight porn, right?

Ignoring the odd and  inappropriate nature of the question, it doesn't matter what you find attractive or unattractive. All that matters is who you choose to be with romantically and/or sexually.

Plenty of gay people knew the were gay when they were kids. Before they had ever had sex with anyone.

They may have been aware of who they were attracted to, but there was no way to establish if they were gay or not until they acted in a romantic and/or sexual way with another person.

You're arguing in a circle here - basically what you're saying is "attraction makes you gay because it does".

I'm saying attraction is what makes you straight or gay.

I knew I was straight as far back as elementary school. Way before I had ever kissed a girl or held hands or had sex. I know for a fact that some gay people had the same experience.

And I'm saying your ACTIONS are what make you straight or gay.

You didn't know you were straight - you just knew you were attracted to women more than you were to men, which is NOT THE SAME THING.

Your attraction to women didn't prohibit you from choosing to be in a romantic and/or sexual relationship with a man unless you chose not to do so.

Posted by bistiza on 4/1/2013 1:43:00 PM (view original):
And I'm saying your ACTIONS are what make you straight or gay.

You didn't know you were straight - you just knew you were attracted to women more than you were to men, which is NOT THE SAME THING.

Your attraction to women didn't prohibit you from choosing to be in a romantic and/or sexual relationship with a man unless you chose not to do so.

No, your feelings are what make you straight or gay.

I knew I was straight, which is what being attracted to the opposite sex is.

Being straight doesn't prohibit me from having sex with men but I have no interest in it because I'm not attracted to men.

Feelings don't determine anything other than how you feel, and that's true for most everything - not just sexuality.

To exaggerate things so that you might understand, you could get angry at someone and feel like killing them. That does not mean you are going to be carted off to jail and charged with murder. Now, if you actually kill them, THEN you may be charged with murder.

Can you see the difference and understand that how you feel means nothing and your actions mean everything? Same thing with sexuality and pretty much everything else in the real world.

If being straight is as simple as just picking a partner of the opposite sex, why would anyone be gay?

People make decisions based on a variety of factors, which are quite numerous and also different for different people.

To see how absurd your question is, I will once again use the same analogy and say it's like asking this:

If not going to jail and facing a murder trial with possible severe penalties is as simple as not killing another person, why would anyone kill someone?

Obviously people choose to do things that may not be seen as the best choices in the minds of others. That doesn't mean they were somehow forced to make those choices or shouldn't be responsible for them.

Also, in the same way someone isn't a murderer until they actually murder someone else (and not when they simply think about it or want to do it), in the same way someone isn't gay just because they desire someone of the same gender until they actually engage in romantic and/or sexual actions with someone of the same gender.

Murder and sexual preference are not analogous.

It doesn't have to be murder - pick any action and the result of the analogy is the same.

The bottom line is that desire and feelings mean nothing. It's what you actually do that matters.

So unless you live in your own fantasy land outside the real world or have some sort of agenda to put forward, there is no reason to argue that "feelings" or "desires" mean more than real actions.

You keep asking these questions and when I answer and it doesn't suit your agenda you ignore the answer and ask another one.

I've clearly shown you how feelings, desires, attraction, etc. mean nothing and actions mean everything.

The idea that anyone is somehow "forced" to be gay because of their attraction is pure BS forwarded by homosexuals in an effort to justify their decisions, which don't actually need justifying in the first place.

You know what? **** it. Never mind. Anyone that thinks the earth is 10,000 years old, that atheism is a religion, that Tom Brady is just an average QB, and that being gay is a choice, is a nut job.

I quit.

Posted by bad_luck on 4/1/2013 2:58:00 PM (view original):
You know what? **** it. Never mind. Anyone that thinks the earth is 10,000 years old, that atheism is a religion, that Tom Brady is just an average QB, and that being gay is a choice, is a nut job.

I quit.

Why isnt Atheism a religion.

I go to meetings, have a basic dogma and compared to things like some of the more obscure religions we stand the test.

Posted by swamphawk22 on 4/1/2013 3:06:00 PM (view original):

Posted by bad_luck on 4/1/2013 2:58:00 PM (view original):
You know what? **** it. Never mind. Anyone that thinks the earth is 10,000 years old, that atheism is a religion, that Tom Brady is just an average QB, and that being gay is a choice, is a nut job.

I quit.

Why isnt Atheism a religion.

I go to meetings, have a basic dogma and compared to things like some of the more obscure religions we stand the test.

It isn't.

You belong to a club.