4/11/2013 5:52 PM
Posted by MikeT23 on 4/11/2013 5:39:00 PM (view original):
Posted by burnsy483 on 4/11/2013 5:27:00 PM (view original):
I think equality is a great reason.  That's something right with it.

Do either of you know a gay couple in a serious relationship?
Is that a requirement of some sort?
No.  I had a follow up question if the answer was yes.
4/11/2013 5:53 PM
I guess we're done here, right?  Getting tired of this.
4/11/2013 6:29 PM
Posted by burnsy483 on 4/11/2013 5:52:00 PM (view original):
Posted by MikeT23 on 4/11/2013 5:39:00 PM (view original):
Posted by burnsy483 on 4/11/2013 5:27:00 PM (view original):
I think equality is a great reason.  That's something right with it.

Do either of you know a gay couple in a serious relationship?
Is that a requirement of some sort?
No.  I had a follow up question if the answer was yes.
I do.
4/12/2013 7:11 AM
Tec, what I guess I'd then ask is - Would you be comfortable telling them no if they asked you if you thought they should be allowed to get married? I'm assuming you're somewhat close with them when I ask that.

Maybe I'm "blinded" somewhat by having gay friends and relatives in relationships. I look at these couples and can't imagine how they aren't worthy of marrying. I'm not saying all gay couples should get married when I say that, just like its not a great idea for all heterosexual couples to get married. But the gay relationships I'm familiar with, personally, certainly aren't any less than any heterosexual relationship I know of. By saying "no, you can't get married," to homosexual couples, you're telling them that their relationship is "less" than heterosexual relationships.

4/12/2013 7:46 AM
REPUGS ARE HOMOPHOBES+ RACISTS
4/12/2013 7:50 AM
Ok then. Maybe some coffee first, Anton?
4/12/2013 8:04 AM
Posted by burnsy483 on 4/12/2013 7:12:00 AM (view original):
Tec, what I guess I'd then ask is - Would you be comfortable telling them no if they asked you if you thought they should be allowed to get married? I'm assuming you're somewhat close with them when I ask that.

Maybe I'm "blinded" somewhat by having gay friends and relatives in relationships. I look at these couples and can't imagine how they aren't worthy of marrying. I'm not saying all gay couples should get married when I say that, just like its not a great idea for all heterosexual couples to get married. But the gay relationships I'm familiar with, personally, certainly aren't any less than any heterosexual relationship I know of. By saying "no, you can't get married," to homosexual couples, you're telling them that their relationship is "less" than heterosexual relationships.

It's my cousin and his longtime partner.  They live in a state that already allows SSM (New York).  I haven't received a wedding invitation from them, so I assume "marriage" is not that important to them.

I can't imagine him asking me for my thoughts on the subject, but if it ever came up and he directly asked me, I think that I would prefer to be honest rather than flat out lie to his face.  I would tell him that I'm the kind of person who values and respects tradition and that I consider marriage to be between a man and a woman.  But also that I have no problem with civil unions, that I feel that couples in a civil union should be afforded all the equality of benefits that traditional (man/woman) married couples have, etc.

Which is pretty much exactly the same thing I would ever tell my kids should the subject ever come up.  And which is also pretty much what I've been consistently saying here.
4/12/2013 8:25 AM
You have been consistent. At the very VERY least, I'd hope civil unions get the exact same benefits as married couples soon.
4/12/2013 8:39 AM
I know gay men but not their partners.  To the best of my knowledge, none are in "serious" relationships.   I'm not particularly close to them so I'm sure I would not be asked what I thought or sent a wedding invitation.

I played co-ed softball at a pretty competitve level several years ago.   Playing to the stereotype, at least 50% of the women were lesbians.  That's who I hung out with between games and at night if we played into Sunday(I had a g/f and I figured she wouldn't gripe at me for hanging out with lesbians).   Had they asked me my opinion on SSM, I'm pretty sure I'd have said "I don't care either way.  But why is it important to you?" and, had they sent me an invitation, I'd have attended.   I would not have joined them on a march to the statehouse to demand their right to marry. 
4/12/2013 8:43 AM
Yes, a SSM would be "different" but I'm arguing it wouldn't be a lesser marriage.

It's fine to argue it wouldn't be lesser, but that doesn't give you license to declare it's not different when the facts say otherwise. I'm glad you finally seem to get that.
 Just like an interracial marriage would be "different" but it wouldn't be a lesser marriage.

Please stop trying to compare people's inherent physical characteristics to the choices people make. We've already been over how that doesn't work, so you should know that continuing to do it isn't going to get you anywhere in this argument.
And that's strange.  I generally prefer cheeseburgers over hot dogs.  You're a pretty complex individual since that question seemed to require a 300 word answer without you telling me what you prefer.

The response was as long as it needed to be to show you that people's preferences are not set in stone. They can and often do change.

Again: You could be a "cheeseburger eater" because you would prefer one right now over a hot dog, but that doesn't mean you will always feel that way, and it doesn't somehow prevent you from deciding to eat a hot dog.

In the same way, you could be "straight" or "gay" because you prefer men or women right now, but that doesn't mean you will always feel that way, and it doesn't prevent you from deciding to be with someone else.

Because of that, it is impossible to declare someone's sexual preference based only on the gender of who they happen to be attracted to at the moment. Attraction is irrelevant - actions are what matter.
Also, you telling me that someone's sexual preference is not pre-determined makes arguing this with you almost impossible.  I prefer women.  Always have.  I didn't determine which sex I prefer.

Yes, my use of obvious logic makes arguing with me almost impossible. That's why so many people pull the routine act of hurling insults and running away with their tails between their legs while shouting from the hills they hide in about how right they are and how wrong I am.

While it's refreshing to see that you haven't (for the most part) acted in that predictably immature fashion, you only now acknowledge how the inherent logic I've used has you flummoxed and have to this point been very stubborn in denying it.

I admire your tenacity, but it's nice to finally see you admit the facts are against you on this one.

No one's sexual preference is pre-determined. You can change your preference any time you'd like, the same way you can change your mind on any other decision.

Whether you admit it or not, you are in control of who you prefer to be with in romantic and/or sexual situations. Unless someone is somehow forcing you to choose certain people or those of a certain gender, the choice is entirely up to you. That means you DO determine which gender you prefer to be with.
4/12/2013 9:22 AM
Speaking of hiding in the hills, how's that young earth evidence coming along?
4/12/2013 9:43 AM
You can't hide in the hills when you won the fight and it's been over for a long time. You also don't have to entertain a rematch just because your opponent is in denial about his loss.

Moving on...

4/12/2013 9:48 AM
Homosexuality isn't a choice.
4/12/2013 9:52 AM
Posted by bad_luck on 4/12/2013 9:48:00 AM (view original):
Homosexuality isn't a choice.
About the only thing I agree with you on in this thread.

Unless you called bis a dumbass.  I agree with you there, too.
4/12/2013 9:56 AM
Biz is a dumbass but he might be attempting to say "homosexual acts are a choice."     However, being a long-winded dumbass, he probably wrote 4 paragraphs while trying to say it and lost his point completely.
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