4/29/2013 2:00 PM
So any definition of a word that is illogical is that way because of agendas and propaganda?

 

No. That's merely the reason the commonly accepted definition of "homosexual" is as it is.
 

If someone puts a gun to your head and forces you to have sex with another man you choose to have sex with a man.


Obviously if someone is forcing your choice of partners then it has no bearing on your choice of sexuality.

There are lots of men in prison choosing to have sex with men. When they leave they usually do not become gay.


So they were gay while they were in prison and decided not to continue having sexual relations with men when they leave. Obviously that is a  choice they can make. If they only have sex with women from then on, they have chosen to become heterosexual again.

This is a case in point of my saying that sexuality is a choice.

I want to be with women. I like looking at them. I fantasize about them. If a woman bends over I check out her cleavage. I do not have any interst in men in this way.

So you choose to look at women and men differently. There's no reason you couldn't look at men the same way as women  if you wanted to, but you choose not to. Great for you.

 

4/29/2013 2:05 PM
"That's what the word means according to the propaganda. You can tell that because it doesn't follow logical reasoning."

You said this, so I assumed that words that don't follow logical reasoning are that way because of agendas and propaganda.  

Where is the hate for parkway/driveway?  

How about flammable and inflammable?  They mean the same thing!  Illogical.
4/29/2013 2:29 PM
You said this, so I assumed that words that don't follow logical reasoning are that way because of agendas and propaganda.

So you made an incorrect assumption. That's why I tell people it's best not to assume things.

I know you have difficulty grasping the English language with your repeated demonstrations of failure to understand relatively simple concepts, but I don't have time to give you a lesson on the nuances of language or why words function the way they do. I suggest you go take a class or hire a tutor instead of trying to learn these things on an internet message board.

The point is that the commonly accepted definition of the word "homosexual" has been influenced by propaganda aimed to justify choices of sexuality.

If you believe sexuality isn't a choice, you are either someone with an agenda who created the propaganda and/or looks to forward it, or you are someone who didn't critically examine it and have fallen for its tactics. Given your struggles with the English language, you almost certainly have to be the latter.
4/29/2013 2:33 PM
It was only an assumption because I assume you are being clear and honest when you say things.  Should I not be assuming that?

Where is the hate for parkway/driveway?  


How about flammable and inflammable?  They mean the same thing!  Illogical.
4/29/2013 2:36 PM
I'll be honest, I'm also confused on why you think there is propaganda, and what the purpose is.  Who is doing this? What is there to gain?  Enlighten me!
4/29/2013 3:35 PM
It was only an assumption because I assume you are being clear and honest when you say things.  Should I not be assuming that?

No. Your assumption had nothing to do with the clarity or honesty of my statements.

Your assumption was that since one word (homosexual) had a commonly accepted definition influenced by propaganda that ALL words with less than logical definitions had to be influenced by propaganda. That isn't true, hence the incorrect nature of your assumption.
I'll be honest, I'm also confused on why you think there is propaganda, and what the purpose is.  Who is doing this? What is there to gain?  Enlighten me!

I already have in several posts, including my last one. Perhaps you should consider trying to read and comprehend things before you respond.
4/29/2013 3:50 PM

A lawyer is a lawyer because they practice law, not because they "think they are" a lawyer.

A pilot is a pilot because they fly airplanes, not because they "are attracted to" airplanes.

An athlete is someone who attempts to use athletic skills, not someone who would simply "like to" use those skills but doesn't do so.

A criminal is a criminal because they take illegal action, not because they merely "think about" doing those things.

A homosexual is a homosexual because they have romantic and/or sexual encounters with someone of the same gender, not because they are merely "attracted to" those people.

Yet many of you want the term "homosexual" to have a special exemption to these rules for no reason other than your own personal or political agendas (or those of the propaganda you've bought into).

Everything you listed, other than homosexual, is basically a career (although criminal is debatable).  Are you only a homosexual now if you're gay for pay?
4/29/2013 3:52 PM
When I worked in an office the summer after my first year of undergrad, I listened to soft rock every day at work.  However, what I LIKE is harder classic rock.  But was I really a soft rock fan during that summer because what I actually did listen to (my actions) demonstrated that attribute?  Of course not.  Because what I would have naturally preferred was some Stones or ZZ Top.  Saying that we are defined exclusively by our actions and not our natural preferences is just stupid, sometimes our environment forces choices on us, but that does not dictate our preference.
4/29/2013 3:57 PM
Posted by burnsy483 on 4/29/2013 2:36:00 PM (view original):
I'll be honest, I'm also confused on why you think there is propaganda, and what the purpose is.  Who is doing this? What is there to gain?  Enlighten me!
I'm curious what bis thinks about porn stars. There are plenty of straight (and married) porn stars who have sex on camera with people of the same gender. Are they only gay while having sex and then do they immediately turn back straight? Or do they actually have to have sex with their spouse to establish their straightness?

4/29/2013 3:57 PM
I can make a list totally analogous to yours.  Look:

I am a classic rock fan not because I listen to classic rock but because I know I would enjoy listening to classic rock.

I am an Orioles fan because I like the Orioles, not because I watch them.  I go to far more Athletics games than Orioles games.  But I'm not an A's fan.  I'm an O's fan because that team is the one I really enjoy.

I am an Eagles fan in spite of the fact that I'm only able to watch a handful of their games per season out here on the West Coast.

I am a social liberal not because I vote Democrat, which I rarely do, but because I prefer that belief system.


So what in the hell do you think you proved by listing a bunch of careers and saying people are in that career as a result of choice, not preference.  That's obvious.  I can also list a bunch of preferences and point out that they exist in spite of choices or realities that may suggest otherwise.  You spend a lot of time talking about logical fallacies, but that was a huge one...
4/29/2013 4:16 PM
"That's what the word means according to the propaganda. You can tell that because it doesn't follow logical reasoning."
  • You listed "it wasn't logical" as the reason the definition is made by propaganda.  You're arguing it doesn't apply to all words, but the above statement insinuates otherwise.

"The point is that the commonly accepted definition of the word "homosexual" has been influenced by propaganda aimed to justify choices of sexuality."
  • "Aimed to justify choices of sexuality" - I don't understand.  Please clarify, be specific.  Not WORDY, but specific.

4/29/2013 4:20 PM
tec asked a question earlier that I found interesting(and I don't think anyone addressed it).   It was the "specific thought process" one.

So I tried(rather unsuccessfully).   I know there was a time when girls were "icky".   I assume, somewhat, that all boys go through that stage where we just want nothing to do with girls.  Back in my day, they played with dolls, fake ovens, had tea parties, played dress-up, etc, etc.   That's what made them different as sex organs just weren't in play at that age.  However, within a few years, a boy's mind wandered and girls became interesting.   Just the natural order of things.

I wonder, if the gender-neutral way to play(girls playing with trucks or tee-ball or whatever) of today would change things?   Would the "natural order of things" come faster/be different?   For me, there was no specific thought process.   There was never a "Wonder what it would be like to kiss Tom?" moment.   Tom and I were too busy drawing up a play in the dirt.   How much different would it have been if Jane were in the huddle instead of Tom?

Anyway, I don't know if that has anything to do with biz's ramblings.   I guess I'm just saying I never made a conscious choice.   It was pretty much a given that I'd date girls.    Nature/nurture argument, I suppose.
4/29/2013 4:21 PM
To further expand on my Orioles fanship point:

My actions over the past few years would clearly define me as an A's fan.  I go to some A's games, as the stadium is only 20 minutes away.  I get all the games on TV and I often watch them when I'm home.  And yeah, I enjoy it.  I can have a good time watching the A's.  But while I'm doing it, I know that I'd really be happier if I was watching the Orioles.  That what I really love is that Baltimore team.  I would prefer to be going to O's games, but right now that's a difficult thing for me to do.  There are substantial obstacles in the way of my attending Orioles games.  It would certainly cost me a lot more and be a lot more work.

The government and society have made it more expensive and generally harder to live life in a homosexual couple.  Even here in the Bay Area there is verbal abuse and many sideways glances directed at homosexual couples.  It costs more and has less advantages because of the lack of marriage benefits for gay couples.  So some people who would prefer to be in long-term romantic and/or sexual relationships with someone of the same sex are still instead choosing relationships with the opposite sex.  But they'd be happier with the same sex, and they know it.  I say those people are homosexual and merely attempting to appear heterosexual, you say they are heterosexual.

Why is being gay or straight more like being a lawyer than an Orioles fan?
4/29/2013 4:23 PM
Agree. You're wired the way you're wired and there really isn't a way to change it. You are straight because you are attracted to women. It's not a choice you made.
4/29/2013 4:37 PM
Well, yeah, I believe that to be true but I also wonder if the enviroment of the late 60s/early 70s somewhat pre-determined it.   I wonder what the kid who asked himself "What would it be like to kiss Tom?" while drawing up a play thought of his feelings.  And what he did about them.   Or if that was even a thought that would fully form back then.   

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