5/3/2013 12:44 PM
Posted by bad_luck on 5/3/2013 11:37:00 AM (view original):
Posted by MikeT23 on 5/3/2013 10:16:00 AM (view original):
Posted by bad_luck on 5/2/2013 4:15:00 PM (view original):
Posted by MikeT23 on 5/2/2013 3:36:00 PM (view original):
Is it?    What "new" development has occurred in the last 20-30 pages?   Other than NBC porn=SSM?

Anyway, the point I was making was simple.  You told tec that some people finding SSM offensive wasn't a good enough reason to prevent it.   That's exactly why porn is not shown on network TV.  Too many find porn offensive.   Religious right, ultra-conservative, Tea Party, whatever label you want to put on them.   But there are enough to stop it.    Of course, that has a $$$ factor that SSM, I assume, does not.  But my guess it's the same group(s) that would object.   More or less.  
Again, there are differences. The porn law applies equally to everyone. One group isn't being singled out. Also, porn is readily available in other formats. States that ban gay marriage leave gays that want to marry without any options.
SSM is new to the US.   There is no precedent that gay couples do, or should, have the same rights to marriage.   That's the debate.   Like it or not, the reason for the debate is that a rather large sub-set of society finds homosexuality an affront to their beliefs.  IOW, they find it offensive.

Homosexuality has come a long way in the last 20-30 years.   It's not yet "mainstream" as evidenced by all the hoopla over the NBA player who came out this week.   The fact that someone has to "come out" speaks volumes.  Collins likely won't have a job next year, not because he's openly gay, but because he's just not that good.  However, the gay community will use that to promote their cause(edited).  "Collins was blackballed because he's gay!!!"    That, in itself, wil cause those who object to homosexuality, at it's core, to push back even harder.   So, despite coming a long way, there's still a long way to go.    People just need to recognize this. 

Some things take time.   Next year, maybe 5 years, maybe 10, no one will care about SSM.   However, by demanding it NOW!!!, they are strengthening the resolve of those who oppose it.   Maybe it's worth the fight today for some but I think it's actually setting back the eventuality of SSM.
Should blacks have just chilled out a little bit and let the civil rights movement just happen? Maybe women would have an easier time today if they hadn't fought so hard for the right to vote and just accepted that fighting for equal rights just made people fight harder against them?

Asking gays to just wait for equal rights is ridiculous. The expansion of liberty is a good thing and I have zero interest in telling someone else how they get to live their life.

Men, women and blacks(of any color) are the same species from a biological standpoint.   We know why blacks, and women to a lesser extent, were not considered equals.    So that's not a legit argument.    No one is denying the gays the right to vote, eat in the same diners, drive a car, etc, etc.  They have the same basic rights as every other human.    Marriage is an institution in our society.    Call it a club if that makes more sense to you.   Everyone is not admitted to every club.

FWIW, the "expansion of liberty" is running this country into the ground.   Morally speaking, the US is bankrupt.   So many of our social problems can be traced back to the "expansion of liberty" that we now have.   Maybe instant "expansion of liberty" isn't such a good thing. 
 

5/3/2013 12:48 PM
I do find it funny that you're all gung-ho for "expansion of liberty" and more gun control.

Blah, blah, blah, guns can hurt other people.     I know.   I've owned at least one gun for 40 years(more or less).   I haven't hurt other people.   Why control me?   EXPANSION OF LIBERTY, *************!!!!!!
5/3/2013 12:50 PM
Not everyone is admitted to private clubs but marriage is a government institution with legal rights and privileges. Denying gays the right to marry denies them equal protection under the law. It is analogous to the civil rights movements of blacks and women. It's also extremely similar to the interracial marriage fight in the 60's.

I'm interested in hearing what expansions of liberty you think are morally bankrupting the country, gramps.
5/3/2013 12:56 PM
Posted by MikeT23 on 5/3/2013 12:48:00 PM (view original):
I do find it funny that you're all gung-ho for "expansion of liberty" and more gun control.

Blah, blah, blah, guns can hurt other people.     I know.   I've owned at least one gun for 40 years(more or less).   I haven't hurt other people.   Why control me?   EXPANSION OF LIBERTY, *************!!!!!!
I'm not any more hung no for gun control than you are. I want reasonable restrictions just like you.
5/3/2013 1:01 PM
Collins has been in the NBA for 13 years. He's been "good" enough for quite awhile now.
5/3/2013 1:05 PM
Denying gays the right to marry denies them equal protection under the law.

That's what you aren't getting: Gays are NOT being denied the right to marry. They can marry anyone of the opposite gender, the same as anyone else.

Funny how I've pointed that out to everyone several times now and none of you has even attempted to argue against it.

5/3/2013 1:05 PM

Governing bodies are allowed to create restrictions on rights and privileges as they see fit.    The people have the right to remove the lawmakers who create these restrictions.    If your representative is going against your wishes on this issue, vote him out.   Vote all of them out. 

5/3/2013 1:17 PM
To put it another way, you are required to get a license in order to exercise your rights in some cases.   If you cannot pass the requirements test, you do not have that right.    Marriage is one of those rights that require a license.    SS couples do not pass that test(which we'll just say is non-matching genitals).  
5/3/2013 1:18 PM
Looks like they're about to start getting rid of some restrictions to me.
5/3/2013 1:18 PM
Collins has been in the NBA for 13 years. He's been "good" enough for quite awhile now.

Yeah but it wasn't until recently that he decided he was gay.  He was straight for many years prior to that, as evidence by the fact that he was with a woman.

Although he claims he basically didn't want to be with her since he was attracted to men. So to those who are so supportive of Collins decision to "come out", maybe you should think about how devastating this is for that woman before you go praising him for deciding to be gay.
5/3/2013 1:19 PM
Posted by MikeT23 on 5/3/2013 1:17:00 PM (view original):
To put it another way, you are required to get a license in order to exercise your rights in some cases.   If you cannot pass the requirements test, you do not have that right.    Marriage is one of those rights that require a license.    SS couples do not pass that test(which we'll just say is non-matching genitals).  
This s changing rapidly. It will be business as usual in another decade.
5/3/2013 1:19 PM
Posted by MikeT23 on 5/3/2013 1:05:00 PM (view original):

Governing bodies are allowed to create restrictions on rights and privileges as they see fit.    The people have the right to remove the lawmakers who create these restrictions.    If your representative is going against your wishes on this issue, vote him out.   Vote all of them out. 

But the laws have to apply equally. The government can't carve out rights for a group without meeting specific guidelines. Otherwise the law gets overturned in court like interracial marriage bans.
5/3/2013 1:21 PM
Posted by bistiza on 5/3/2013 1:18:00 PM (view original):
Collins has been in the NBA for 13 years. He's been "good" enough for quite awhile now.

Yeah but it wasn't until recently that he decided he was gay.  He was straight for many years prior to that, as evidence by the fact that he was with a woman.

Although he claims he basically didn't want to be with her since he was attracted to men. So to those who are so supportive of Collins decision to "come out", maybe you should think about how devastating this is for that woman before you go praising him for deciding to be gay.
You should think about how devastating it was to him that he had to pretend he was straight all those years. Locker room jock mentality.
5/3/2013 1:21 PM
Posted by bad_luck on 5/3/2013 1:19:00 PM (view original):
Posted by MikeT23 on 5/3/2013 1:05:00 PM (view original):

Governing bodies are allowed to create restrictions on rights and privileges as they see fit.    The people have the right to remove the lawmakers who create these restrictions.    If your representative is going against your wishes on this issue, vote him out.   Vote all of them out. 

But the laws have to apply equally. The government can't carve out rights for a group without meeting specific guidelines. Otherwise the law gets overturned in court like interracial marriage bans.
And the way gay marriage bans are going to be struck down soon.
5/3/2013 1:21 PM
Posted by The Taint on 5/3/2013 1:02:00 PM (view original):
Collins has been in the NBA for 13 years. He's been "good" enough for quite awhile now.
Yep.   Bernie Williams was a multi-time All-Star.    Is he still "good" enough to be in MLB?   

Funny thing about sports.   Your skills decline and they don't want you anymore.
of 358

Terms of Use Customer Support Privacy Statement

Popular on WhatIfSports site: Baseball Simulation | College Basketball Game | College Football Game | Online Baseball Game | Hockey Simulation | NFL Picks | College Football Picks | Sports Games

© 1999-2014 WhatIfSports.com, Inc. All rights reserved. WhatIfSports is a trademark of WhatIfSports.com, Inc. SimLeague, SimMatchup and iSimNow are trademarks or registered trademarks of Electronic Arts, Inc. Used under license. The names of actual companies and products mentioned herein may be the trademarks of their respective owners.