All Forums > Hardball Dynasty Baseball > Hardball Dynasty > How important is pitch calling?
7/14/2012 4:49 PM
I have a good offensive catcher in AAA who has a 36 pitch calling..projected to 40 max...my major league catcher is very average at hitting but has a 92 pitch calling and a strong accurate arm.....Im wondering if the offensive abilities of the guy in the minors would make up for his way below average catching ability?

thoughts? ideas?
7/14/2012 4:59 PM
Trout is marginally (if at all) better than Savage as a hitter.  I would say he's a .250-.330-.420 type hitter, maybe.  His AAA season this year is an aberation.

No way he's worth giving up all those PC points.  Savage is a career .700 hitter, he's not terrible as a batter.

Stick with Savage.
7/14/2012 5:50 PM
I'd suggest reading "The Rightfielder" thread
7/14/2012 10:08 PM
Pitch-calling is the most important rating in the game. 
7/14/2012 11:19 PM
Posted by maxdeardorff on 7/14/2012 10:08:00 PM (view original):
Pitch-calling is the most important rating in the game. 
Why?
7/15/2012 12:13 AM
Id like to know as well
7/15/2012 11:37 PM
Well, according to MikeT's calculations, every 10 pts of PC are worth about .125 ERA (over the long run).  Thus a guy who has 90 PC will save 0.5 more runs over the course of a game than a C who has an average PC of 50.    When you measure player values in terms of RC/27 (which is how SS are calculated), a regular position player makes 27 outs every nine games.  During that time, the high PC catcher has saved 4.5 runs, in addition to whatever his RC/27 is.  Even if he has a paltry RC/27 of 3.0, the cumulative 7.5 (accounting for his defense) is better than the offensive numbers of 90% of position players.
7/16/2012 12:37 AM
Max,

Explain please.

A guy who has 90 PC save .5 runs per game over a guy who has a 50 PC.  So he saves .5 runs/27 outs.  (If Mike's #'s are correct)

If he creates 3.0/27 and save .5/27, isn't he worth 3.5 runs/27?

moe
7/16/2012 1:10 AM
I believe RC/27 doesn't count one game (because my slugging 1B is good, but he himself does not create 8.0 runs/game) but rather every time said player accumulates 27 outs.  So every player accumulates 27 outs roughly every 9 games.  There is a bit of approximation that goes into this, but I think my calculations get close.  Good defensive catchers matter a lot.  There's a reason Yadier Molina just got a six-year/$87mil contract. 
7/16/2012 1:43 AM
Posted by maxdeardorff on 7/16/2012 1:10:00 AM (view original):
I believe RC/27 doesn't count one game (because my slugging 1B is good, but he himself does not create 8.0 runs/game) but rather every time said player accumulates 27 outs.  So every player accumulates 27 outs roughly every 9 games.  There is a bit of approximation that goes into this, but I think my calculations get close.  Good defensive catchers matter a lot.  There's a reason Yadier Molina just got a six-year/$87mil contract. 
This is incorrect: RC/27 literally divides the runs a player creates (using whichever of the various available formulas HBD favors) by 27.
7/16/2012 6:39 AM
To calculate " RC/27". First you calculate a players runs created. Then you divide that by the number of outs he consumed in creating those runs. Finally, you multiple that by 27.

I believe it is likely MikeTs numbers are inaccurate. When you combine a small sample size with a result that is significantly different than expectation; skepticism is required.
7/16/2012 10:06 AM
It was compiled of 20ish seasons of platoon-type C.   I wasn't as defensive-minded back then so, obviously, the numbers are going to change based on the D behind them.  .125 is going to be harder to cover if a team has an ERA of 3.5 instead of 4.5.    So the number probably needs to be adjusted up/down based on the quality of your pitching/defense. 

That said, it was really accurate back in the Dark Ages of HBD.
7/16/2012 10:11 AM
Checking my teams, and two of yours, it's still pretty close. 
7/16/2012 3:54 PM (edited)
Catcher is one of the most important positions IMO.  They can greatly effect the game defensively, helping your pitcher (s) produce more outs and also throwing in some offense as well.  While nothing beats having an ACE starting pitcher, having a good catcher is a close second.  Then of course, strong up the middle applies as well.

When looking at catchers, I always try to get a high PC coupled with adequate offense.  PC comes first.  If I roll into a catcher that just mashes and is near 50 PC, I will play him, but will then pair him with a 90+ PC guy to finish games off.

As an edit, if I do have a masher low PC catcher type, I will also look to move him for pieces I do need.  Nothing excites a good trade opportunity more in this game that lighting up the other guy's MDS (Mesolimbic Dopamine System - not related to the game lol) with offensive ratings.  Offense is great, but personally I always look to fulfill my defensive needs at every position first.

7/16/2012 4:23 PM
good info....thanks guys
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