8/29/2012 4:47 PM
Of course it is.  But anyone who does it thinks it's "normal" to have a couple 50 wins seasons in a row after taking over a "trainwreck".
8/29/2012 4:50 PM

I always refer back to this team:

1 reddevil19 ML 72-90 .444 4th No No      
2 reddevil19 ML 58-104 .358 4th No No      
3 mmacharg ML 42-120 .259 4th No No      
4 MikeT23 ML 66-96 .407 3rd No No      
5 MikeT23 ML 76-86 .469 2nd No No      
6 MikeT23 ML 75-87 .463 2nd No No      
7 MikeT23 ML 92-70 .568 2nd Yes No no no no
8 MikeT23 ML 90-72 .556 1st No Yes no no no
9 MikeT23 ML 93-69 .574 1st No Yes yes no no
10 MikeT23 ML 91-71 .562 1st No Yes no no no
11 MikeT23 ML 92-70 .568 1st No Yes yes yes yes
12 MikeT23 ML 107-55 .660 1st No Yes yes no no
13 MikeT23 ML 89-73 .549 2nd Yes No yes yes yes


High payroll, low talent.  I doubt anyone would have blinked had I thrown out a 53 and 57 win team in my first two seasons.   The team had 3-4 legit BL players on the roster.  I wish I could find the thread detailing the roster breakdown of how the two WS winners were acquired. 

8/29/2012 4:58 PM
Posted by mchalesarmy on 8/29/2012 4:46:00 PM (view original):
quote of tomhighway

"and the best way to build the team is to have a bad season or two"...

Or three or 6. Is there a diference?

When you feel it is ok to have a bad season or two as part of a plan isn't that the very definition of tanking?
Oh, now I'm a tanker.. lol
8/29/2012 5:00 PM
Posted by tomhighway on 8/29/2012 4:58:00 PM (view original):
Posted by mchalesarmy on 8/29/2012 4:46:00 PM (view original):
quote of tomhighway

"and the best way to build the team is to have a bad season or two"...

Or three or 6. Is there a diference?

When you feel it is ok to have a bad season or two as part of a plan isn't that the very definition of tanking?
Oh, now I'm a tanker.. lol
I made no statements, I asked you a question tom.

Actually two questions.
8/29/2012 5:02 PM
Posted by MikeT23 on 8/29/2012 4:50:00 PM (view original):

I always refer back to this team:

1 reddevil19 ML 72-90 .444 4th No No      
2 reddevil19 ML 58-104 .358 4th No No      
3 mmacharg ML 42-120 .259 4th No No      
4 MikeT23 ML 66-96 .407 3rd No No      
5 MikeT23 ML 76-86 .469 2nd No No      
6 MikeT23 ML 75-87 .463 2nd No No      
7 MikeT23 ML 92-70 .568 2nd Yes No no no no
8 MikeT23 ML 90-72 .556 1st No Yes no no no
9 MikeT23 ML 93-69 .574 1st No Yes yes no no
10 MikeT23 ML 91-71 .562 1st No Yes no no no
11 MikeT23 ML 92-70 .568 1st No Yes yes yes yes
12 MikeT23 ML 107-55 .660 1st No Yes yes no no
13 MikeT23 ML 89-73 .549 2nd Yes No yes yes yes


High payroll, low talent.  I doubt anyone would have blinked had I thrown out a 53 and 57 win team in my first two seasons.   The team had 3-4 legit BL players on the roster.  I wish I could find the thread detailing the roster breakdown of how the two WS winners were acquired. 

There is no way to compare teams. You don't know what talent was available to me in FA or any other area when I took over the ONE team in which I have 2 consecutive 50-55 win seasons. I did not go for high priced FA's and I signed the best players available. Hell, I even signed a type A to try and win more games but it didn't work to my advantage and the guy had a terrible season but I signed him. FA classes are different from world to world and sometimes there are great classes with a lot of cheap talent left over and sometimes there is not. Exactly why I could produce 73+ win teams every season in Doubleday even during rebuild seasons.
8/29/2012 5:06 PM
This looks kinda tankerly:

8 mgdtiger ML 73-89 .451 3rd No No      
9 mgdtiger ML 83-79 .512 2nd No No      
10 mgdtiger ML 80-82 .494 2nd No No      
11 mgdtiger ML 63-99 .389 4th No No      
12 stiller609 ML 71-91 .438 3rd No No      
13 tomhighway ML 59-103 .364 4th No No      
14 tomhighway ML 52-110 .321 4th No No      
15 tomhighway ML 91-71 .562 1st No Yes no no no
16 tomhighway ML 88-74 .543 2nd No No      

Declining win totals and payroll cutting followed by a quick upswing in wins.

However, that wasn't his point.  Once you accept losing, if only for a "season or two", you've started down the tanker path.
8/29/2012 5:07 PM

Owners who put together consecutive horrible seasons always have an excuse.  Always.

8/29/2012 5:08 PM
I'm still new to this, but as I look around my world more and more, I can see why tanking would work - and I didn't want to believe that it should.  

Seems to me that the achilles heel of this sim might be the absolute predictability of the players.  We are told as owners to invest in scouting, and training, and coaching.  Yet every single major award winner - ROY, Cy, MVP - in my world's history appears to have been either a first round-pick (in the top 12 with few exceptions) or a stud IFA.  

Now I know things may be different elsewhere, but I'm now led to wonder if there is no chance at all in this game for the emergence of an Albert Pujols, a Brady Anderson, or god help us, a Jose Bautista.


8/29/2012 5:10 PM
And for Mchalesarmy,  I never said 3,4,5,6 was ok.. I said 2.. 2 seasons trying to fix a team is not terrible if you end up only winning 50-55 games. There is a limit, I just don't think having 2 bad seasons are a clear way of calling anyone a tanker. I only brought up my past because I can only speak for me. I can't speak for everyone else, I don't try to speak for everyone else. I am stating that in MY opinion and with MY history I would say it's not something that should be an automatic assumption. I don't tank, and having some bad seasons don't make you a tanker. Just like having more a couple championships doesn't make you a great owner. Circumstances involved will determine that. Tankers are owners who consistently play guys out of position, guys who never should be in the Majors when guys are available on FA. Just like some multiple championship winners only win championships in tard worlds. 
8/29/2012 5:13 PM
Posted by MikeT23 on 8/29/2012 5:07:00 PM (view original):

Owners who put together consecutive horrible seasons always have an excuse.  Always.

Yeah, I do it all the time Mike.. Every single world I've ever been in I tank.
8/29/2012 5:14 PM
So your limit is two 50 win seasons in a row.   Somebody else's might be 6 in a row.   What's the difference?

Again, once you accept losing, if only for a "season or two", you've started down the tanker path.
8/29/2012 5:14 PM
Posted by tomhighway on 8/29/2012 5:13:00 PM (view original):
Posted by MikeT23 on 8/29/2012 5:07:00 PM (view original):

Owners who put together consecutive horrible seasons always have an excuse.  Always.

Yeah, I do it all the time Mike.. Every single world I've ever been in I tank.
Didn't say that.  I'm saying you're making excuses for consecutive 50 wins seasons.   Which is what people do.
8/29/2012 5:17 PM
Posted by MikeT23 on 8/29/2012 5:14:00 PM (view original):
So your limit is two 50 win seasons in a row.   Somebody else's might be 6 in a row.   What's the difference?

Again, once you accept losing, if only for a "season or two", you've started down the tanker path.
It's my opinion, just like you have YOUR opinion. I don't think 1 owner having 1 time had a couple bad records makes them a tanker. Again, I said I feel owners that have over half their completed seasons with over 100 losses are clearly tanking. If someone choose to do it a lot then they should get outted, but someone that has a rare couple seasons like that should not be put in that category. I was never FINE with how those seasons ended up, it was an example of it happening and the fact it can happen when people are not intentionally tanking.

8/29/2012 5:21 PM
Tom, that was my question.

You say a season or two. Someone else thinks 4 or 5 is fine. I'm not saying it's horrible or something to be ashamed of, however the very idea "The best way to turn this team around is to not do so well my first two seasons" is the very definition of tanking.

Some may call it soft tanking or whatever. Yeah you aren't playing Catchers at SS, but you have accepted in your mind that winning too many games will not be beneficial. Therefore you don't put the best effort into winning at the BL level which, again, is the very definition of tanking.

For clarity I am not calling YOU a tanker, you seem to be a very competent owner.

I am just pointing out that when you concede winning at the BL level for the betterment of the future, you are tanking that season. Period.
8/29/2012 5:25 PM
Posted by MikeT23 on 8/21/2012 8:10:00 AM (view original):
It's the internet.  I don't "know" anyone.   How am I to know if RL got in the way or they were simply tanking?  Hit the MWR or move on.   I offer anyone removed for missing the MWR an opportunity to re-apply after skipping a season.   That way, intentional or not, they don't benefit from winning 35 games.
This.  

You say "I'm doing my best" on your way to consecutive 50 win seasons.   Maybe you are, maybe you aren't.   How am I supposed to know anything beyond two consecutive 110 loss seasons?
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