All Forums > Hardball Dynasty Baseball > Hardball Dynasty > Amateur Draft Signability
9/3/2013 11:02 PM
.......what??????? If the offer is rejected and the blue x is there there is no offer to withdraw.

Since we've moved on to some sort of theoretical flight of fancy to create a situation where you didn't screw up, I am done here now....
9/3/2013 11:33 PM
Posted by bglick on 9/3/2013 10:36:00 PM (view original):
Posted by tropicana on 9/3/2013 10:20:00 PM (view original):
HE. NEVER. REJECTED. THE. OFFER.
Please relax, I'm talking about a hypothetical situation to show you how the wording may be unclear.

In a different, hypothetical situation, if an owner offers the player his initial demands, and then the player eventually rejects it and asks for higher demands, how can the owner offer the player his higher demands without withdrawing their initial offer and thus negating the ability to get a comp pick? 


If you offer the higher demand, there is no comp pick to worry about because the player will sign in the next cycle. Hypothetical problem solved. You're welcome.
9/4/2013 11:33 PM
Posted by bglick on 9/3/2013 6:30:00 PM (view original):
Posted by grissom97 on 9/3/2013 6:21:00 PM (view original):
Ok, no there is no way to tell what he will ask for.  My guess if he asks for more it will be in the $6-7M range.  He may end up signing for what you offered but that was much more likely before you countered your own offer.  The problem you believe that FA, IFA's and Coach signings are the same as trying to sign a draft pick.  They're not.  In this case you are negotiating with a player that only you have the rights to.  In the other cases you're competing with other owners and then it may be wise to up your offer.

I'm guessing you've never been in sales or you would understand that by upping your offer without being asked to you were negotiating against yourself.  When you do that if the player wants more money he works up from your last offer so it may have been cheaper to just wait him out until he decided that more money could convince him to play for you.

You're right that it doesn't make sense that you wouldn't get a comp pick if he can't be signed however the game hasn't been set up to adjust for all contingencies.  Since it was sold to Fox a few years ago the development and upgrading of this game has pretty much ended although they talk about improvements on occasion.
Ok thanks for the advice about the $ range and the insight about the development of the game. I did not know about that. 

I understand the concept of "bidding against yourself" despite not working as a salesman, it is a rather easy concept to understand.

No one else seems to understand/take the perspective that in real life if a player said that they were debating going back to school, a way to motivate them would be to offer them more money. Since I assume this game tries to be as realistic as possible, I applied this logic to his message saying he was debating going back to school. If the message had been "this isn't about money, nothing you can increase your offer to would make me change your mind", then of course I wouldn't have raised my offer. This was my reasoning in increasing my offer which everyone seems to agree is an absurd notion to take for some odd reason. 
No what you don't understand is you'd still be negotiating against yourself if that happened in real life.  Why would you counter until it was necessary.  It's best to wait him out until he decides if he wants to sign.  Again in your scenario you're just raising the bar.  In real life if you come back to offer more money to convince me to make a decision I know I can get even more money out of you and now I know I don't need to do anything to get it.  If I just simply wait and you'll continue to add money to the offer.  

My final thought on this subject is no matter what, this isn't real life.  It's a computer program with it's own rules and quirks.  Accept them for what they are and use them to your advantage.  This game will never be perfect, just as RL will never be perfect.
9/5/2013 12:07 PM
Posted by grissom97 on 9/4/2013 11:33:00 PM (view original):
Posted by bglick on 9/3/2013 6:30:00 PM (view original):
Posted by grissom97 on 9/3/2013 6:21:00 PM (view original):
Ok, no there is no way to tell what he will ask for.  My guess if he asks for more it will be in the $6-7M range.  He may end up signing for what you offered but that was much more likely before you countered your own offer.  The problem you believe that FA, IFA's and Coach signings are the same as trying to sign a draft pick.  They're not.  In this case you are negotiating with a player that only you have the rights to.  In the other cases you're competing with other owners and then it may be wise to up your offer.

I'm guessing you've never been in sales or you would understand that by upping your offer without being asked to you were negotiating against yourself.  When you do that if the player wants more money he works up from your last offer so it may have been cheaper to just wait him out until he decided that more money could convince him to play for you.

You're right that it doesn't make sense that you wouldn't get a comp pick if he can't be signed however the game hasn't been set up to adjust for all contingencies.  Since it was sold to Fox a few years ago the development and upgrading of this game has pretty much ended although they talk about improvements on occasion.
Ok thanks for the advice about the $ range and the insight about the development of the game. I did not know about that. 

I understand the concept of "bidding against yourself" despite not working as a salesman, it is a rather easy concept to understand.

No one else seems to understand/take the perspective that in real life if a player said that they were debating going back to school, a way to motivate them would be to offer them more money. Since I assume this game tries to be as realistic as possible, I applied this logic to his message saying he was debating going back to school. If the message had been "this isn't about money, nothing you can increase your offer to would make me change your mind", then of course I wouldn't have raised my offer. This was my reasoning in increasing my offer which everyone seems to agree is an absurd notion to take for some odd reason. 
No what you don't understand is you'd still be negotiating against yourself if that happened in real life.  Why would you counter until it was necessary.  It's best to wait him out until he decides if he wants to sign.  Again in your scenario you're just raising the bar.  In real life if you come back to offer more money to convince me to make a decision I know I can get even more money out of you and now I know I don't need to do anything to get it.  If I just simply wait and you'll continue to add money to the offer.  

My final thought on this subject is no matter what, this isn't real life.  It's a computer program with it's own rules and quirks.  Accept them for what they are and use them to your advantage.  This game will never be perfect, just as RL will never be perfect.
I'm not debating whether or not the game should follow real life or not, I was just saying having not known before the logic behind the technical rules of getting Type D draft picks, I assumed things worked logically, i.e. more money would help your chance to get someone to sign. I understand that this is not the case in this case.

Anyways he came back asking for $5.9mm, do I have all season to try to get the money together? I'm about 700k short right now. 
9/5/2013 12:10 PM
Yes, you have all season to get the dough together.   Sooner the better, so he gets more development time.
9/5/2013 12:37 PM
Posted by bglick on 9/5/2013 12:07:00 PM (view original):
Posted by grissom97 on 9/4/2013 11:33:00 PM (view original):
Posted by bglick on 9/3/2013 6:30:00 PM (view original):
Posted by grissom97 on 9/3/2013 6:21:00 PM (view original):
Ok, no there is no way to tell what he will ask for.  My guess if he asks for more it will be in the $6-7M range.  He may end up signing for what you offered but that was much more likely before you countered your own offer.  The problem you believe that FA, IFA's and Coach signings are the same as trying to sign a draft pick.  They're not.  In this case you are negotiating with a player that only you have the rights to.  In the other cases you're competing with other owners and then it may be wise to up your offer.

I'm guessing you've never been in sales or you would understand that by upping your offer without being asked to you were negotiating against yourself.  When you do that if the player wants more money he works up from your last offer so it may have been cheaper to just wait him out until he decided that more money could convince him to play for you.

You're right that it doesn't make sense that you wouldn't get a comp pick if he can't be signed however the game hasn't been set up to adjust for all contingencies.  Since it was sold to Fox a few years ago the development and upgrading of this game has pretty much ended although they talk about improvements on occasion.
Ok thanks for the advice about the $ range and the insight about the development of the game. I did not know about that. 

I understand the concept of "bidding against yourself" despite not working as a salesman, it is a rather easy concept to understand.

No one else seems to understand/take the perspective that in real life if a player said that they were debating going back to school, a way to motivate them would be to offer them more money. Since I assume this game tries to be as realistic as possible, I applied this logic to his message saying he was debating going back to school. If the message had been "this isn't about money, nothing you can increase your offer to would make me change your mind", then of course I wouldn't have raised my offer. This was my reasoning in increasing my offer which everyone seems to agree is an absurd notion to take for some odd reason. 
No what you don't understand is you'd still be negotiating against yourself if that happened in real life.  Why would you counter until it was necessary.  It's best to wait him out until he decides if he wants to sign.  Again in your scenario you're just raising the bar.  In real life if you come back to offer more money to convince me to make a decision I know I can get even more money out of you and now I know I don't need to do anything to get it.  If I just simply wait and you'll continue to add money to the offer.  

My final thought on this subject is no matter what, this isn't real life.  It's a computer program with it's own rules and quirks.  Accept them for what they are and use them to your advantage.  This game will never be perfect, just as RL will never be perfect.
I'm not debating whether or not the game should follow real life or not, I was just saying having not known before the logic behind the technical rules of getting Type D draft picks, I assumed things worked logically, i.e. more money would help your chance to get someone to sign. I understand that this is not the case in this case.

Anyways he came back asking for $5.9mm, do I have all season to try to get the money together? I'm about 700k short right now. 
Offer him what you have, either with a Minor League Invite, or Big League Contract at somewhere between $54.5k & 327k a year.... He will probably accept with just the Minor League Invite for $5.2k (if he is asking $5.9k)
9/5/2013 2:12 PM (edited)
Wait it's possible that he'll sign below his demands? 

And Fwiw i got the blue x next to him, does that mean I didn't screw up the possibility of a comp pick (still waiting to hear back from support)? If I offer something below his demands and he rejects though, then I definitely won't get a comp pick right (Assuming that theoretically that I didn't screw it up previously, we'll see what support says)? 
9/5/2013 2:19 PM
The ST invite has value to the player, so he's saying it might be enough to make up the 700K in bonus money.  No idea if that's right or not as I've never tried it.

And no, the blue X doesn't necessarily mean you didn't screw up the possibility of getting a comp pick - that's just the sign that he rejected your offer but came back with new demands.  If he decided to go to back to college or whatever, you'd get a red X.   I don't think anything you can do at this point impacts you getting a comp pick.
9/5/2013 2:44 PM

No idea about ST invite but, if your player is asking for 5m in bonus, you can give him a BL contract at 327k for three seasons and he'll sign for 4.6m, more or less.  You're 700k short, you should be able to sign him that way. 

9/5/2013 2:48 PM
Posted by AlCheez on 9/5/2013 2:19:00 PM (view original):
The ST invite has value to the player, so he's saying it might be enough to make up the 700K in bonus money.  No idea if that's right or not as I've never tried it.

And no, the blue X doesn't necessarily mean you didn't screw up the possibility of getting a comp pick - that's just the sign that he rejected your offer but came back with new demands.  If he decided to go to back to college or whatever, you'd get a red X.   I don't think anything you can do at this point impacts you getting a comp pick.
Ok just for the theoretic scenario that I had only offered him his demands once and then he came back and rejected it and he said he it would take 700k more, and I only offered the ST invite and he rejected that, would that negate the possibility of me getting a comp pick (Again assume that I didn't increase my offer the first time)?
9/5/2013 2:50 PM
Would it help if I had made the last sentence it's own paragraph?
9/5/2013 3:07 PM
I didn't know if you were referring to the hypothetical scenario I was talking about or whether you were still referring to my current situation where I offered two contracts before he had officially rejected my contract. 
9/5/2013 3:15 PM
Posted by MikeT23 on 9/5/2013 2:44:00 PM (view original):

No idea about ST invite but, if your player is asking for 5m in bonus, you can give him a BL contract at 327k for three seasons and he'll sign for 4.6m, more or less.  You're 700k short, you should be able to sign him that way. 

How does offering him a big league contract work if I plan to keep him in the minor leagues? 

Theoretically if I had a ton of room in payroll could I just sign my prospects using payroll money rather than prospect bonus bonus money since that fund is limited? 
9/5/2013 3:37 PM
Posted by bglick on 9/5/2013 3:15:00 PM (view original):
Posted by MikeT23 on 9/5/2013 2:44:00 PM (view original):

No idea about ST invite but, if your player is asking for 5m in bonus, you can give him a BL contract at 327k for three seasons and he'll sign for 4.6m, more or less.  You're 700k short, you should be able to sign him that way. 

How does offering him a big league contract work if I plan to keep him in the minor leagues? 

Theoretically if I had a ton of room in payroll could I just sign my prospects using payroll money rather than prospect bonus bonus money since that fund is limited? 
A big league contract forces him onto your 40-man roster.  You can then designate him WITHOUT WAIVERS to remove him from the 40-man to only eat up one option (this part is a glitch that they have not fixed, and probably never will).  An ML contract to an amateur player has to be 3 years in length, and between $54,500 & $327K a year (and distributed within the normal contract guidelines (i.e., it can't be 54,500, 54,500, 327,000)).
The consequences of an ML contract in this case are that he makes a little more money than your normal minors guys and he will eat up an option (or as many years of options as you leave him on the 40-man).
I would just offer the ST invite and as much bonus money as you have, first.  If he rejects, move on to a BL contract.
You can't do anything to change the status of whether you will or will not receive a Comp. pick after he rejects your initial offer (if it had been your only offer, you would get a comp pick if you didn't sign him, regardless of the number of future contracts you offer to him)
9/5/2013 5:23 PM
"You can then designate him WITHOUT WAIVERS to remove him from the 40-man to only eat up one option (this part is a glitch that they have not fixed, and probably never will)."

Is this true only of draft picks?
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