Posted by tecwrg on 10/21/2014 10:47:00 PM (view original):
And as a double-check: 

Total season defensive stats in Mantle (79 games in):  774 caught stealing, and 79 pickoffs.

Total season offensive stats in Mantle (79 games in): 853 caught stealing

774 + 79 = 853

So pickoffs are being scored as caught stealing offensively, but nothing defensively (other than assists and put-outs).

And according to Baseball-reference.com:

Total season defensive stats in MLB 2014: 1035 caught stealing, and 286 pickoffs

Total season offensive stats in MLB 2014: 1035 caught stealing

So HBD is not crediting pickoffs correctly as caught stealing statistically to the defense.

I will open a ticket with ADMIN tomorrow to report this as a bug.

For some reason I was reading it as BK and not PK, thanks.

So do we submit a ticket asking why the pickoffs aren't showing up defensively for pitchers, or...


beat me to it.

Ticket submitted.  I'll update this thread if/when they respond.

Posted by tecwrg on 10/21/2014 8:05:00 PM (view original):
I looked at one of my teams that has a catcher who gets the bulk of the workload (around 86% of all innings), and four pitchers, over three consecutive seasons (Mantle, S31-S33).

The catcher is Dean Schmidt.  The pitchers are RHPs Ronnie Gallagher and Frank Petersen, and LHPs Ed Jodie and Bennie Walker.

Over those three seasons, the two lefties have the higher CS percentage.  Walker at .480 (24/50), and Jodie at .459 (28/61).  The two righties check in with almost identical numbers, with Gallagher at .298 (23/77) and Petersen at .299 (20/67).  Though even those numbers are not really consistent as, for instance, Gallagher varied from .129 in S33 to .462 in S32 to .350 in S31.  Likewise for Jodie, who varied from .560 -> .304 -> .538.

Probably need more data samples for other pitchers throwing to the same catchers, but if there's any correlation, it might be LHP having a better CS percentage than RHP.  But we need more data to correlate.

As far as arm strength goes . . . the pitcher with the weakest arm in my sample, Walker (AS = 35) had the highest CS percentage.  Jodie was next at (AS = 91), and the two righties were similar to each other (Gallagher AS  = 54, Petersen AS = 59).

A 10-minute look through my teams history shows no correlation to CS% and pitcher handiness.

Yeah, I looked thru mine last night/this morning and, using 1100 catcher innings as a baseline(75% of the innings), I'm just not see a correlation between handedness or arm strength of pitchers.    It's a very small sample size, I don't have a lot of catchers getting 1100 innings, but it's just not there.   I was only using pitchers with at least 100 innings pitched.    Very few had more than 20 SB attempts so, even using those inning requirements, the results could vary greatly.   5 for 20 is 25%, about average, and 7 for 20 is 35%, way above average.   And maybe one pitcher just got a team full of 95/88 SP/BR one game in interleague.   Just way too many variables. 

Fair enough.  I was using four pitchers across three consecutive seasons all throwing to the same catcher, so only 12 data points.  A small sample size.  The fact that I saw significant variation from season to season made me suspect that the correlation that appeared to be there between pitcher handedness and CS wasn't very strong, and may have been just an anomaly.

Here's a good example(S25 of Mantle):
Hardball Dynasty – Fantasy Baseball Sim Games - Player Profile: Luis Vizquel  1081 catcher innings(just under 75%).  Threw out 28.5% with the team average of 30.7%.

Hardball Dynasty – Fantasy Baseball Sim Games - Player Profile: Ryne Narveson with 11/27 AA/AS got 45.5% in 224 innings.   22 attempts
Hardball Dynasty – Fantasy Baseball Sim Games - Player Profile: Sam Atchley 63/33 got 42.9% in 213 innings.    35 attempts
Hardball Dynasty – Fantasy Baseball Sim Games - Player Profile: Wilkin Soriano 31/25   12.5%    168      16 attempts
All RH

Hardball Dynasty – Fantasy Baseball Sim Games - Player Profile: Rodney Hurst  29/49  26.3%   136     19 attempts
Hardball Dynasty – Fantasy Baseball Sim Games - Player Profile: Lonny Bocachica  81/88  28.6%  108   7 attempts
Hardball Dynasty – Fantasy Baseball Sim Games - Player Profile: Matt Christensen  88/57  33.3%   128     6 attempts
All LH

Bocachica(7) and Christensen(6) could have drastically different numbers with 1 more SB or CS in the other direction.  

To further drive home the point, Bocachica and Christensen were used solely in relief.   Hardball Dynasty – Fantasy Baseball Sim Games - Player Profile: Sun Lee was my defensive catcher who played 317 innings in 22 starts/90 appearances. 

I just don't see any correlation between attempts/CS and pitcher arm/handedness.   It's the same with every team I've checked.   The numbers are just all over the place and they could be much different with a result or two in the other direction because pitchers just don't see 100 attempts.