Critical news debate - Page 47 - Hardball Dynasty

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Posted by MikeT23 on 5/13/2015 12:23:00 PM (view original):
The logical reason, and this will send crickett into a tizzy, is that the planned update with ADV was either too strong or too weak(depending on what it is and which side of the fence you're standing on). So they're trying to decide whether to go on as planned or make adjustments. And, if they're changing what they were planning, the have to make sure it can be programmed.

Now crickett wants them to announce that. Which is silly.

So ADV update could mean nothing? or everything? Anxiety from obsession averted.

5/13/2015 4:59 PM

MikeT23

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Here's another reason why budgets should be hidden:

I'm trying to make a deal in one of my worlds. Owner is trying to acquire a DH-type that I use in RF Hardball Dynasty – Fantasy Baseball Sim Games - Player Profile: Kevin Ryu. Owner says "I don't like to pay DHs that much." I've countered with "You have 15m in unused payroll. You aren't getting a good IFA with 6m in prospect + transfer money and there are no FA worth signing. What do you plan to spend that unused payroll on?" I shouldn't have that info. IMO, his bargaining position is weakened because I know he has the 6.5m, and some, with no viable option to use it. So pay a damn DH 6.5m and make the deal.

5/13/2015 5:02 PM

groth911

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I don't have a problem with owners knowing how much I spent on scouting... The fact that the informatuon can be used doesn't automatically mean we shouldn't have it. And as has been mentioned here- in real life I suspect teams have at least some idea about the financial situation of other teams

5/13/2015 6:28 PM

bjschumacher

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Hiding the budgets would eliminate some of the ways that some owners can game the system, as Mike said. I'm all for it.

5/13/2015 6:39 PM

groth911

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I would agree that we should limit the ways owners can game the system- however I'm not prepared to use the term "gaming the system" interchangeably with "using information available to us"- knowing where a player was drafted or the signing bonus of an ifa is also used to assess the value of a prospect- and I don't think that anyone wants that information hidden. Using the information available to us is a skill used for the game- and to some degree the more info you remove the more you make the game a crapshoot. So I don't know that I would draw the line as far as what information we should have at that place. I do agree that intuitively we shouldn't have the ifa demand as a means to assess their value- and admittedly I don't have a bright line rule as to why we shouldn't have it... But it's not clear to me that the other teams budget info leads to "gaming the system" in the same way

5/13/2015 6:51 PM

crickett13

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Posted by MikeT23 on 5/13/2015 4:09:00 PM (view original):
Posted by crickett13 on 5/13/2015 3:11:00 PM (view original):
No answering a customer question is never silly. If you don't know the answer or are still working on it the answer would be "We have not made the final decision yet" It only seems to be in your very limited mind that not answering a question from a customer equals something.

I'm glad I don't have to deal with whatever business you run.
Trust me, if you were my customer, it wouldn't be for long. I'd more than happily say "Yeah, I don't need your business."

When you have nothing to say, you say nothing. You don't announce you have nothing to say. That's stupid and that's what you seem to want. If it's 5/25 and they say "Update will go as planned on 5/26", you've got something to whine about. But, right now, the planned update, 13 days from now, has ZERO effect on you. None. Nada.

Which simply proves what an egotistical *** you are. All headpirate is proving is how long his tongue is.

5/13/2015 7:11 PM

hypnotoad

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Incorporate other team's budgets into the ADV scouting - like an espionage budget.

5/13/2015 7:14 PM

MikeT23

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Posted by crickett13 on 5/13/2015 7:11:00 PM (view original):
Posted by MikeT23 on 5/13/2015 4:09:00 PM (view original):
Posted by crickett13 on 5/13/2015 3:11:00 PM (view original):
No answering a customer question is never silly. If you don't know the answer or are still working on it the answer would be "We have not made the final decision yet" It only seems to be in your very limited mind that not answering a question from a customer equals something.

I'm glad I don't have to deal with whatever business you run.
Trust me, if you were my customer, it wouldn't be for long. I'd more than happily say "Yeah, I don't need your business."

When you have nothing to say, you say nothing. You don't announce you have nothing to say. That's stupid and that's what you seem to want. If it's 5/25 and they say "Update will go as planned on 5/26", you've got something to whine about. But, right now, the planned update, 13 days from now, has ZERO effect on you. None. Nada.
Which simply proves what an egotistical *** you are. All headpirate is proving is how long his tongue is.

Because I'm capable of determining value vs. pain in the ***? If I'm making 8 bucks a month off you, I'm not real interested in your opinion of how I do things. If I'm making 8k a month off you, well, your opinion carries a little more weight.

5/13/2015 7:26 PM

MikeT23

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Posted by groth911 on 5/13/2015 6:51:00 PM (view original):
I would agree that we should limit the ways owners can game the system- however I'm not prepared to use the term "gaming the system" interchangeably with "using information available to us"- knowing where a player was drafted or the signing bonus of an ifa is also used to assess the value of a prospect- and I don't think that anyone wants that information hidden. Using the information available to us is a skill used for the game- and to some degree the more info you remove the more you make the game a crapshoot. So I don't know that I would draw the line as far as what information we should have at that place. I do agree that intuitively we shouldn't have the ifa demand as a means to assess their value- and admittedly I don't have a bright line rule as to why we shouldn't have it... But it's not clear to me that the other teams budget info leads to "gaming the system" in the same way

The "info we have" is info we shouldn't. Sure, I want to know that John Smith was the 3rd HS pitcher taken. And that he was the 11th overall. However, the info I shouldn't have is how much you budgeted for HS scouting. We're you just picking blind? Or were you heavily scouting HS? If nothing else, I should have to pay for that info. With ADV.

5/13/2015 7:57 PM

joshkvt

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Posted by pjfoster13 on 5/13/2015 4:03:00 PM (view original):
1) will "fuzzy projections" mean that the numbers will be visible but inaccurate, or that the numbers will simply be question marks? the descriptor "fuzzy" itself is fuzzy
2) for IFA and draft, instead of omitting current ratings and only showing projections, wouldn't it make more sense to do it the other way around and show currents but omit projections, so that gms would have to infer quality based on how a prospect's current rating relates to age and development context (how good is a team's training and coaching)
3) if IFA does in fact become more random and ADV does in fact become relevant again (in addition to the software patch preventing vision of IFAs that haven't been discovered yet), might this update signal the end of budget transfers for the purpose of massive IFA signings ($35M+ signings take at least $50M budgeting units)?

1-Nothing indicates that. Fuzzy seems to mean less accurate. The ?s mean a player was not scouted at all. There have been suggestions to tie the # of prospects seen to HS/COL and the quality of projections to ADV, but if the update includes that it's not apparent.
2-What's the benefit of that? Would be much more complicated to implement, since they'd need two sets of Current — the accurate ones for your own team, and other players' accuracy depending on budgets.
3-No. If someone wants to punt the present and blow $50M on a stud IFA, he's still going to be able to. He might have to put $4M more into INT (or ADV) but would still be able to figure out which IFA are going to be stars, or at least are most likely to be stars. If I'm planning to devote $50M to an IFA, having fuzzier projections isn't going to change my plan. Just like fuzzier projections won't eliminate tanking for top draft picks. Both cases could be less of a sure thing, but having the #1 pick or $35M to blow on an IFA is still going to be better than having the #9 pick or having $15M for IFA bidding.

5/13/2015 9:06 PM

groth911

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Mike, how are you determining what info we should or shouldn't have? I happen to like that information (wouldn't necessarily mind it being tied to advanced scouting) and I also happen to really like the changes but as I said I don't want to leave us flying totally blind either (would the saying throw the baby out with the bath water apply here?). So how are you deciding what info we should or shouldn't have?

5/13/2015 10:21 PM

MikeT23

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Real life. The Cardinals know the Reds have 85m committed to payroll. They don't know if the Reds are budgeted to add another 20m or are tapped out. They don't know if the Reds sent their best scouts to watch Jimmy Fastball dozens of times or if they read about him in Baseball America and devoted their resources to other players. They don't know if the Reds medical staff is top of the line or bottom of the barrel.

I can look at your budget and know all this. I shouldn't. Because that's not how the world works.

FWIW, I like having that info. But, with that info, I don't need scouting and, because I know the "tricks", I have a big advantage over those who don't. I don't play in worlds with very many people who don't know the tricks but lots of owners do. Even the playing field.

5/13/2015 10:43 PM

groth911

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Let's use nba as an example as I know the upper level management a little better there. I'm sure teams realize that the Spurs make very good personnel decisions and Michael Jordan draft picks may be suspect (at least based on Kwame Brown). I'm also sure that teams have some idea how good a teams medical staff is and what parameters a Gm has to work with as far as payroll... So I don't think that flying blind about other teams mirrors real life.

When I was first starting in this game, I figured out to look at draft pick or signing bonus to assess a prospect. it didn't occur to me right away to look at the teams budget making that pick- you say "even the playing field" and in this case it still feels like "eliminate a level of analysis that could be done."

So I'm not sure elongating the info is more realistic or improves the game.

Also I think someone else pointed out that seeing budgets is a useful learning tool for new owners (I have tried and look at how some successful owners built their teams).

5/13/2015 10:59 PM

frymaster99

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Agreed with groth. A team (in any real life league) will know if a competing team has no hot water, masseuse, etc etc like in Major League. That's tied to training. If their team doctor is fresh out of grad school well, that's low in Medical. Teams will most certainly have access to this info.

5/13/2015 11:17 PM

MikeT23

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Let's not use the NBA as an example as there is no minor leagues, teams are much smaller, there are two rounds in the draft, picks are much more "sure" as even the worst 2nd round pick will likely play(or sit the bench) for the team for a few years and there is an actual SALARY, NOT BUDGET, cap.

I'm fine with leaving a "League average" for the learning tool for new owners. But we shouldn't be able to access individual team's budgeting decisions. We WANT to do so because it helps us skimp on scouting.

5/14/2015 7:06 AM

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