Posted by MikeT23 on 11/19/2015 8:04:00 AM (view original):
That's pretty much what happened.   I got the "A" team with regards to my MG problems(and the owner was replaced immediately when I gave them his "I can't continue at this point.  Please replace me" post in the world chat).    In this case, I got the "B" team who wanted me to contact the owner who asked to be replaced, have him contact support and explain why he was leaving.   That's just stupid.   As I said, they have his info.  More info than I have.   CS can send emails and sitemails to said owner if they have more questions.    They chose not to do that and closed the ticket because I said "Don't bother to respond".  

At some point, common sense has to take over.   The team is abandoned and worlds suffer when abandoned teams are allowed to trudge their way to the finish.  With a closed ticket, the issue is dead to WifS.   So, with 50+ games left, this team will be without an owner for more than half a season.   Who does that benefit?

If the owner confirms they are giving up the team as they asked, you don't think they'll transfer it still?  And again, "CS should do it" sounds like the others that say WIS should be filling their worlds too.  It would be ideal, but is not the level of support they choose/are able to provide.   Sometimes you have to go the extra mile to ensure the world is in good order.  Want a fast rollover?  You have to be proactive in recruiting owners.  WIS won't do it for you.  Want to replace an owner?  Sometime you may have to get additional confirmation, because they want to make sure the team is actually abandoned.  WIS apparently doesn't do that either.  The owner paid for the team in exchange for a 162 game season.  If they want to make absolutely sure the owner is willingly giving up the team to ensure they are not breaching the agreement, what is wrong with that?  

No point in arguing with him Mike. I replaced about a dozen owners who were still active with just a trade chat.

Posted by MikeT23 on 11/19/2015 8:20:00 AM (view original):
I can guarantee you, if tzentmeyer sees this thread, the replacement will be done immediately.   IMMEDIATELY.

Because, here's the thing, if they replace dwoolery and he says "Hey, I went to check my team and it was gone", they can reverse it immediately.    There is ABSOLUTELY NO REASON to not do the exchange 17 days after abandonment especially with a request to be replaced.   Because, after all, they can give him the team back if he wants it.

And then that owner can start an irate thread here saying how lousy customer service is because they took away his team when he was still logging into the site.  They want to avoid that, and any other action that owner might take if they mistakingly take away the team.  I don't see a problem with it.  Like I said, difference of opinion, no point in continuing to debate in circles.  

Are you really missing the point?   Owner says "Sorry, I can't finish this out.   Here's the $50 I committed.   Please find a replacement."    Owner disappears for 17 days.    What else do they need in order to do the transfer?     If they want information on why he's done, they can certainly contact him.    They have his email address and I know they can send sitemails.   Why he has abandoned this team isn't Foxx's problem.   The world's problem is that they have a rudderless ship.   Why dwoolery left isn't the concern of the other 31 owners.   They, the 31 paying customers, just need it fixed.   A solution was found.  No one contacted WifS and said "Hey, we have an abandoned team.   Please find a replacement."    That has been done.  Again, no one is stopping WifS from questioning dwoolery.   But it's obvious to anyone with a semi-functional brain that he is done with that particular team.

You are right about one thing.  There is no point in continuing discussing this with you.  

If an owner who asked to be replaced then disappeared for 17 days started an irate thread asking "Why did they replace me?", I imagine you'd be the only one to side with him.   Everyone else would say "You asked to be replaced and disappeared for 17 days.   WTF did you expect to happen?"

Posted by crickett13 on 11/19/2015 8:28:00 AM (view original):
No point in arguing with him Mike. I replaced about a dozen owners who were still active with just a trade chat.

As have I.  But if they want additional confirmation, that's their right to ask for it, and I think it was warranted given the circumstances.  The transaction that occurred when the owner purchased the team was between the owner and WIS.  You, me, or mike don't get to tell them when they should move forward with replacing an owner and that it should be done after 14 days every time without further inquiry, as we're not direct parties to the transaction.   OK, really done now.  

WTF were the circumstances?

Posted by MikeT23 on 11/19/2015 8:30:00 AM (view original):
Are you really missing the point?   Owner says "Sorry, I can't finish this out.   Here's the $50 I committed.   Please find a replacement."    Owner disappears for 17 days.    What else do they need in order to do the transfer?     If they want information on why he's done, they can certainly contact him.    They have his email address and I know they can send sitemails.   Why he has abandoned this team isn't Foxx's problem.   The world's problem is that they have a rudderless ship.   Why dwoolery left isn't the concern of the other 31 owners.   They, the 31 paying customers, just need it fixed.   A solution was found.  No one contacted WifS and said "Hey, we have an abandoned team.   Please find a replacement."    That has been done.  Again, no one is stopping WifS from questioning dwoolery.   But it's obvious to anyone with a semi-functional brain that he is done with that particular team.

And are you saying they have no right to ask for additional confirmation if they choose?  Think of any other good or service purchased, can the seller take it back without giving a refund unless there is clear confirmation that the purchaser is agreeing to those terms?   That's my point, that you seem to be missing.  

They certainly do.   Bombard dwoolery with emails and sitemails.   If you have his phone number, call him on the hour, every hour.    But fix your goddam damaged product while waiting for him to respond.   There are 31 paying customers who are being affected, in some way, by their hesitation to do what one paying customer asked them to do(which was replace him).

Your point is stupid.   It's just a contrarian stance for the sake of being contrarian.  If you were trying to replace an owner who asked to be replaced, you'd want it done.  Now and not after you jumped thru hoops so they could find out WHY he wanted to be replaced not THAT he wanted to be replaced.   Do you not understand the difference?   Do you really think he DOESN'T want to be replaced?   Any answer other than "I don't know that for sure" proves you're just arguing to argue.   And "I don't know that for sure" would prove you are incapable of reasonable thought.

Let's break this down:

dwoolery 10/31/2015 3:37 PM
This new format only made it worse. I'm gonna send you the $50 credit for the contest and ask if you could try to find a replacement for my team. Sorry to bail, and good luck.


"This new format only made it worse"   He's unhappy with the new format.   Pretty cut and dry.
"I'm gonna send you the $50 credit for the contest"   He's sending me $50 for a reason.   I think they can check into that.
"and ask if you could try to find a replacement for my team"  Maybe it's just me but I think he's asking for a replacement.
"Sorry to bail"   He's apologizing because he has decided to "bail".   Since we're not in a boat, one could assume he has "bailed" on the "contest".

Couple that with leaving this team untouched for 17 days and I think, and maybe I'm just creating a situation that doesn't exist, he has decided to give up the team.

Agree or disagree?

Posted by MikeT23 on 11/19/2015 8:48:00 AM (view original):
They certainly do.   Bombard dwoolery with emails and sitemails.   If you have his phone number, call him on the hour, every hour.    But fix your goddam damaged product while waiting for him to respond.   There are 31 paying customers who are being affected, in some way, by their hesitation to do what one paying customer asked them to do(which was replace him).

Your point is stupid.   It's just a contrarian stance for the sake of being contrarian.  If you were trying to replace an owner who asked to be replaced, you'd want it done.  Now and not after you jumped thru hoops so they could find out WHY he wanted to be replaced not THAT he wanted to be replaced.   Do you not understand the difference?   Do you really think he DOESN'T want to be replaced?   Any answer other than "I don't know that for sure" proves you're just arguing to argue.   And "I don't know that for sure" would prove you are incapable of reasonable thought.

OK, I must have missed the announcement from WIS of the addition to the TOS that miket23 gets to determine the level of evidence needed for WIS to be comfortable replacing an owner, who should be responsible for obtaining that evidence, and the time frame in which that should occur.

Nowhere in the purchase agreement does it say abandoned owners will be replaced after 14 days of not checking in without further question.  It does say that the owner who purchased the team is paying money in exchange for a 162 game season.  If they want additional confirmation that the owner agrees to terminating that agreement, that's their right.   And it's really not their duty to obtain that additional confirmation.  It is their duty to uphold the agreement and fulfill the service that was promised when the team was purchased of a 162 game season.  

I actually do think the owner wanted to be replaced.  All I'm saying is I don't think it is unreasonable for WIS to ask for additional confirmation and while it would be great customer service for them to be the ones to reach out to him to get it, I don't think they are obligated.  

Are they obligated to provide provide a viable product for their customers?

Is an abandoned team a detriment to a league as a whole?

Any answer other than "Yes" is wrong.   If you disagree, I'll send you the memo announcing that I decide the answer to those two questions.

Where in the purchase agreement does it say they'll replace abandoned owners without further question after 14 days or if there are questions they will be the ones to seek out responses from the owner being replaced?   Send me the memo when you answer that one.  

It's a thing called "precedent".   Have you heard of it?   They announced, and there is no way I'm digging for it, that owners absent for 14 days would be eligible to be replaced and that new owners who went missing for 5 days during ST would be eligible to be replaced.    Did they guarantee it?  Not to my knowledge.  But, in my experience, they have never denied a transfer.   And, futhermore, any correspondence stating that they'd like to be replaced hastened the process.

And what questions, pertaining to his desire to give up the Tacoma team in Foxx, needs to be answered?  He didn't say "I've been a little bored with HBD.  I've been thinking about giving it up.   I'll let you know shortly."     He asked to be replaced, he paid up a committment and he stopped checking the team.   The reasonable response is to replace him and reach out to him to find out what he dislikes about the new format.   Otherwise, you have a team with no owner getting fatigue-bombed and potentially affecting playoff races.   That is damaging THEIR product.   The effect it has on me is virtually non-existent.  But they have 15 paying customers who are getting/going to get/not get "free" wins and that will negatively effect the experience for those who don't get those wins.

There's a precedent for them replacing abandoned owners after 14 days without question?   I must be an outlier because I have been asked to provide additional information several times.   There's a precedent for them being the ones to obtain the additional information if there are questions?  I must be an outlier there too, because when additional information was required to complete a transfer, WIS was the one to obtain the information, to borrow a quote from your buddy josh, exactly 0% of the time.